[sims] Sims change request for MSI please vote

[woodham]

change request to ask for msi installers for sims.net

 

http://support.capitaes.co.uk/ChangeRequest/DetailChangeRequest.aspx?id=%c3%97%c3%9f%c3%92%c3%9a%c3%a8%c3%a8%c3%94%c3%9c%c3%a0%c3%a1%c3%96%c3%a1

 

please vote

 

thanks

[Rawns]

Voted, but this has been debated for years and Capita simply won't do it. All their time and effort is going into SOLUS3.

 

Thread: http://www.edugeek.net/forums/mis-systems/10114-sims-msi.html

Edited May 2, 2013 by Rawns

[sted]

same as just for registration which is all most teachers use why cant it have a web page on your local iis server so 0 software to install in classrooms in a lot of cases?

[woodham]

i know but it buggs me so im going to keep bugging them

 

,,same as with the audit trail, really how hard is it to have sql log which user changed an address? according to capita ... Very we it would be if you wrote your software so every change is written to the database under sims_user and not the actual user.... thats just lazy

[Michael]

MSIs aren't the way forward for MIS systems. Having SIMS or any MIS system cloud or web based is the way forward. Just think, you'd then only have to worry about updating .NET and SIMS itself on the actual server, rather than having clients and .NET installed on workstations. It also opens the way to having an MIS system accessible on any OS or device that has browser support.

[sparkeh]

MSIs aren't the way forward for MIS systems.

Apparently the way forward is to force users to wrestle with a buggy, broken and frustrating propriety deployment system.

Will vote but it won't happen.

[alexsanger]

Agreed, but Serco are managing to make even that look hard!

 

Anyone out there successfully virtualising SIMS?

[FN-GM]

Doesn't bother me. I have an install script i push out using SCCM.

[Michael]

I know Progresso is 'sort of' web based, but I thought by 2015 ish SIMS would be available as a cloud solution?

[jinnantonnixx]

MSIs aren't the way forward for MIS systems. Having SIMS or any MIS system cloud or web based is the way forward. Just think, you'd then only have to worry about updating .NET and SIMS itself on the actual server, rather than having clients and .NET installed on workstations. It also opens the way to having an MIS system accessible on any OS or device that has browser support.

 

They had considered it way back, and came back with this response.

http://www.edugeek.net/forums/mis-systems/10045-sims-web-version.html#post102253

 

Perhaps it's unfair to assume that this is still their stance.

 

?

Edited May 2, 2013 by jinnantonnixx

[Michael]

That discussion started in July 2007 and I think cloud applications have moved on somewhat. We're not just using Windows machines anymore in 2013, which is why many companies have gone cloud based.

 

I agree that it would require a lot of coding and modifications, but Capita are a huge organisation. They certainly have the resources for such a project to become a reality. A server based .NET application accessible via a browser can/could be accessible from Windows, Mac, Android and Linux.

[vikpaw]

i know but it buggs me so im going to keep bugging them

 

,,same as with the audit trail, really how hard is it to have sql log which user changed an address? according to capita ... Very we it would be if you wrote your software so every change is written to the database under sims_user and not the actual user.... thats just lazy

 

Voted, and agreed. Did you see my post on supportnet regarding their view on adding audit trail?

 

I agree that cloud / web version is the way to go, and i think their stance has changed, look at all the new systems (modules), but moving a behemoth like SIMS takes time so patience is required.

 

I just wish SOLUS 2 support would be extended indefinitely for those that want it, rather than S³ being imposed.

[Chuckster]

Doesn't bother me. I have an install script i push out using SCCM.

 

Would it be possible you could upload the script?

[localzuk]

There are a number of MIS's now which are web based - Aspen and iSams for example. They had them on show at BETT. There's no excuse for it now really.

[sted]

I agree that it would require a lot of coding and modifications, but Capita are a huge organisation.

 

to do everything sims does probably but just for registration all you are doing is adding a values to an sql database shouldnt be that hard to add p/a/l/ua to a database (or whatever the actual codes are)

[sparkeh]

I agree that it would require a lot of coding and modifications, but Capita are a huge organisation.

Not always a benefit when undertaking projects

 

Obviously I don't know the internal workings of Capita but even agreeing to take on a project like this could prove to be a complex bureaucratic task itself.

[Theblacksheep]

It also opens the way to having an MIS system accessible on any OS or device that has browser support.

 

That's not the way forward, capita and their partners do quite nicely in selling schools other products to access the same data.

[Meldrew]

I have voted too, but here I have a program I wrote (c#) that I run which monitors the solus3 agent temporary extract directory and pulls out the MSIs (along with some other stuff that can be safely ignored). I only have solus 3 agents on 2 machines here, the server and my PC (out of SIMS running on about 200 PCs). I simply start the deployment, fire up my monitor program on my PC (I called it solus3 harvester) and wait. When the agent has installed the client software on my PC, I pull the MSI out, push it out to a test PC to check it works and then distribute it across the network to clients which need it - simples.

 

If anyone would like a copy, let me know.

 

Meldrew

[localzuk]

Not always a benefit when undertaking projects

 

Obviously I don't know the internal workings of Capita but even agreeing to take on a project like this could prove to be a complex bureaucratic task itself.

 

Knowing someone who worked there, such a change would definitely be a bureaucratic nightmare. The words used to describe Capita's internal runnings were "if you want to innovate, you won't get anywhere, if you tie the party line and just do what you're told you'll do well".

 

I suppose it comes down to the old phrase "big ships turn slowly".

[woodham]

Voted, and agreed. Did you see my post on supportnet regarding their view on adding audit trail?

 

i did and i agree

 

i also found two county support units are calling for audit trails as change requests so voted for them as well

 

im sure there must be some legal requirement under the dpa for it i just cant nail down the relevant section "Yet!"

[vikpaw]

@woodham if you have the CR numbers i'll go and support. Can't currently get on due to an error at their end, and don't fancy the nightmare of a CR search.

 

As for the web-based MIS, i'm sure it's being worked on, but in the meantime they do offer SLG (Don't shout at me, i'm just saying) which allows web reg. Plus there are add-ins from TASC and Bromcom which will do it also. So there's enough out there that they can work on the major project rather than rushing to get a single module up in a hurry.

[free780]

There is pro solution which has a basic web part and a msi based client.

[synaesthesia]

Knowing someone who worked there, such a change would definitely be a bureaucratic nightmare. The words used to describe Capita's internal runnings were "if you want to innovate, you won't get anywhere, if you tie the party line and just do what you're told you'll do well".

 

I suppose it comes down to the old phrase "big ships turn slowly".

 

As an ex employee - nail hit on the head.

 

Anyway on topic I have to ask "what for". People don't bat an eyelid when software doesn't come MSI'd and they spend an hour or so doing it themselves. Why is it different for SIMS? (That's rhetorical, it isn't different, but I'm asking why people think it's any different)

[Meldrew]

Anyway on topic I have to ask "what for". People don't bat an eyelid when software doesn't come MSI'd and they spend an hour or so doing it themselves. Why is it different for SIMS? (That's rhetorical, it isn't different, but I'm asking why people think it's any different)

 

I'd answer by saying using SOLUS3 doesn't take an hour or so, its hours and hours of bashing your head against a wall. It works okayish in a small environment, eg small primary school where all clients will be switched on and users informed not to use SIMS, but for installation on say 200 clients, many of which not onsite at the same time, its a nightmare. For upgrading the server however - it works quite well. The distribution to clients is the problem.

 

Meldrew

[synaesthesia]

Ok, so again how is that different? You still can't deploy to machines that aren't physically there/on with MSI. You can redeploy them at your leisure with either solus 3 or MSI. If you're having that level of difficulty then can I assume you've yet to install solus 3.5?