[Gatt]

It looks like this will my new job title!

So, since the JD I have seen is very vague, I was wondering what exactly an RM CSE does - compared to a NM?

From what I can see it looks like I'll be a glorified Technician on a NM pay scale...

[jcollings]

RM - Careers

RM - Careers

Those 2 links are to RM Careers site - 1 for Support Technician & 1 for Senior Support Engineer. Not sure if they are any help but may give you some ideas.

[Sylv3r]

Heres a job advert for a Senior RM Customer Support Engineer - how much does it differ?

Senior Customer Support Engineer, Leeds BSF - Leeds, West Yorkshire - Job: 45704746 - Totaljobs.com

[AngryTechnician]

Originally Posted by Gatt

I was wondering what exactly an RM CSE does

If my experience is anything to go by, it will mean offering highly unlikely solutions to the customer in an increasingly desperate effort to avoid admitting that some RM software might have a bug. Right up to telling the customer to power down every workstation, server, and switch on the entire site, and then power them back on again.

No, really, I was actually told to do that recently.

[matt40k]

Originally Posted by AngryTechnician

If my experience is anything to go by, it will mean offering highly unlikely solutions to the customer in an increasingly desperate effort to avoid admitting that some RM software might have a bug. Right up to telling the customer to power down every workstation, server, and switch on the entire site, and then power them back on again.

No, really, I was actually told to do that recently.

Eh? What was the logic. I had a BT "engineer" tell me to reboot by Homehub to solve an issue with the VOIP phone... which I was phoning from.

[ngreenwood]

The RM Senior Customer Support Engineer is a technician that supervises the other technicians at the site where he works; basically the site lead, with responsibilities to match.

[Gatt]

Thanks folks - I've not had the "official" TUPE interview between me, RM HR, LEA HR and my Line Manager - where I hope things will become a lot clearer

the JD I have seen was given to another NM in my LEA - since our school has split from our LEA's IT Services tea, we run everything in-house - and word is that RM are happy with our setup and wont be installing CC4 in our school just yet

Might mean my JD is slightly different though I wouldn't think it would be if its a standard JD for the Salford BSF contract

[j4y5]

We had our first meeting this morning. Myself, other technician, line manager, deputy head and someone from "Working with schools". We discussed RMs job description and compared it to our current one which contained a whole lot more. School is now concerned that somethings are not covered eg "what about the website?". We then compiled a few questions to approach RM with.

The next step is a consultation with RM and our school, then i believe between RM and all "tuped" employees from all Salford schools. RM have a Q&A section regarding tupe on their website which we found useful. One thing stands out in particular and that is that there is "no specified time limit on this protection" ie the protection of our terms & conditions. I thought it was two years but it may be less.

[ROBOCOP]

Originally Posted by j4y5

We had our first meeting this morning. Myself, other technician, line manager, deputy head and someone from "Working with schools". We discussed RMs job description and compared it to our current one which contained a whole lot more. School is now concerned that somethings are not covered eg "what about the website?". We then compiled a few questions to approach RM with.

The next step is a consultation with RM and our school, then i believe between RM and all "tuped" employees from all Salford schools. RM have a Q&A section regarding tupe on their website which we found useful. One thing stands out in particular and that is that there is "no specified time limit on this protection" ie the protection of our terms & conditions. I thought it was two years but it may be less.

I'd be very careful what you agree to as RM have a reputation for 'working within the spirit of TUPE' which usually means a quick re-org (on grounds of economic, organisational or techincal reasons), getting TUPE'd staff to accept new JDs (whose role description usually has 'and any other duties as directed' at the bottom) which then means their old T&Cs are out the window. Then again, to be honest you will have little choice unless the LEA backs you up.

[Grommit]

Originally Posted by j4y5

We had our first meeting this morning. Myself, other technician, line manager, deputy head and someone from "Working with schools". We discussed RMs job description and compared it to our current one which contained a whole lot more. School is now concerned that somethings are not covered eg "what about the website?". We then compiled a few questions to approach RM with.

The next step is a consultation with RM and our school, then i believe between RM and all "tuped" employees from all Salford schools. RM have a Q&A section regarding tupe on their website which we found useful. One thing stands out in particular and that is that there is "no specified time limit on this protection" ie the protection of our terms & conditions. I thought it was two years but it may be less.

One site that was taken over has within 6 asked all the staff to reapply for their jobs :-( there is no 2 years protection if RM can show economic issues

[Zoom7000]

Originally Posted by Grommit

One site that was taken over has within 6 asked all the staff to reapply for their jobs :-( there is no 2 years protection if RM can show economic issues

I'm afraid that statement is a wild rumour that is flying around. There appears to be a lot of talk that TUPE only protects you for 1, 2 or 5 years etc. This is untrue. TUPE protects you indefinitely. Both HR departments and my union (Unite) I spoke to have confirmed this. If RM lose the contract, go bust or whatever, you are TUPEd back to the school.

My union rep and I had a thorough read of the RM Contract (not JD - I still have the same borough JD) and we were both happy at the contents of the contract. It was a standard contract that just laid out the T&Cs as required by law really. Nothing untowards at all.

Trust me, I have never been happier in my position. There has been a few things to readjust and get used to, but nothing of any major concern that our unions have felt aggrieved about and our unions have been extremely supportive every step of way. I have spoken to a few TUPEd employees and almost all have felt the same way.

If anyone has anymore questions, feel free to PM, I will try to help in anyway I can.

[localzuk]

Originally Posted by Zoom7000

I'm afraid that statement is a wild rumour that is flying around. There appears to be a lot of talk that TUPE only protects you for 1, 2 or 5 years etc. This is untrue. TUPE protects you indefinitely. Both HR departments and my union (Unite) I spoke to have confirmed this. If RM lose the contract, go bust or whatever, you are TUPEd back to the school.

Ok, I feel this needs clarifying further, TUPE protection allows you to stay on the same conditions within the new company. If the company has a Economical, Organisational or Techincal reason to alter them, it can. What TUPE does is prevent it saying that your job conditions must change simply because of the transfer (ie. if they now have too many staff due to the transfer, they can't simply sack the new ones).

Once you have been TUPE'd, you are a member of that company's workforce - if it loses the contract, goes bust or whatever - you are still a member of that company's workforce and will feel the effects of that directly. The company, if they lose a contract, *may* wish to TUPE you back to the school, but this is simply another TUPEing like your original TUPE. You will not automatically go back to the school!

[broc]

Another thing about TUPE....

Your career progression within your new employers organisation may be restricted while you remain employed under your old terms and conditions. You might be offered a promotion subject to signing a new contract under your new employers T&C. Once you have done that, you lose whatever protection you had under TUPE.

[bossman]

Another small clause in the TUPE process allows for "compatibilty" and this in turn is a 6 weeks review for both the TUPEd and the TUPEe to see if you fit into the organisation whereupon they can give you leave of notice in the form of redundancy and also they can change the style of TUPE to suit themselves.

This has happened to some people and they have had to fight against it but this is not being brought up at the BSF meetings or answered by the people in charge.

In certain LAs the powers that be are trying to change the TUPE process to save themselves and the contractors money which is bad play but it is going on and the unions are aware of it.

[ROBOCOP]

Originally Posted by bossman

Another small clause in the TUPE process allows for "compatibilty" and this in turn is a 6 weeks review for both the TUPEd and the TUPEe to see if you fit into the organisation whereupon they can give you leave of notice in the form of redundancy and also they can change the style of TUPE to suit themselves.

This has happened to some people and they have had to fight against it but this is not being brought up at the BSF meetings or answered by the people in charge.

In certain LAs the powers that be are trying to change the TUPE process to save themselves and the contractors money which is bad play but it is going on and the unions are aware of it.

If you fail the 'compatability/fitness for role' test then either you have to transfer back to the LA or, as is usually the case as they don't have a job for you anymore, you are made redundant and the LA has to bear the costs.

You also shouldn't confuse your T&Cs with you job/role description as the latter will most certainly be expected to change (otherwise how else can the ICT provider give an improved service to the LA/Schools using the same staff or less).

As I've said previously if you are good at your job, prepared for change, work hard, don't cause trouble then you will generally be ok but working for the private sector means you can be given your P45 at anytime (don't be fooled thinking TUPE will protect you) but this is the same as millions of workers in the UK who wake up every morning wondering if they will still have a job at the end of the day. If you don't like it then apply for another public sector job but as outsourcing spreads you are just delaying the inevitable.