Intel's 'Haswell' CPUs could be the last interchangeable desktop processor

[Arthur]

According to rumour below, many of Intel's fifth-gen Core processors due to be released in 2014 will be soldered to motherboards - just like Atom and mobile processors are today. Since most schools typically buy low-to-mid range Celeron/Pentium/Core i3-based PCs, this means that in order to upgrade the processor you will have to buy a brand new motherboard. While not many upgrade processors in old desktop PCs, you will have to throw away a perfectly good CPU if the motherboard dies outside of its warranty period.

 

As personal computers become smaller, their flexibility is decreasing. According to a media report, starting from the Broadwell generation of processors, Intel Corp. will only offer mainstream desktop chips in BGA packaging, which will eliminate upgrade options as well as increase risks for PC makers.

 

According to the Japanese PC Watch web-site, Haswell microprocessors may be the last desktop chips in LGA packaging, which enables easy switching of CPUs on mainboards. Starting from the Broadwell chips, which are due in 2014, all mainstream desktop processors will be available in BGA packaging, which means that they will have to be soldered to mainboards, something that can be done in relatively sophisticated manufacturing facilities.

 

The BGA MCMs should provide advantages to makers of high-performance tablets, ultra-thin notebooks as well as all-in-one desktops as ball grid array packaging ensure small footprint. However, when it comes to fully-fledged desktops, BGA means that system makers will have to keep a large amount of different mainboards with various features and dissimilar microprocessors in order to provide the right choices for their clients. Such stockpiling increases business risks to smaller makers and decreases abilities to differentiate for mainboard makers.

 

While mainstream chips will reportedly be only supplied in BGA form-factors soldered to mainboards, which eliminates upgrade possibility, it is likely that high-end desktop (HEDT) platforms will still be supplied in LGA packaging. What remains to be seen is how expensive will such chips be. For example, at present the most affordable LGA2011 HEDT chip costs $294, whereas the most expensive performance-mainstream LGA1155 processor costs $332. In case upgradeable platforms remain on the HEDT’s price levels of today, that will essentially mean the end of upgrades of the mainstream PCs. (Source)

 

http://s17.postimage.org/hmiswn5tb/lga2011.jpg

[jamesfed]

Could strengthen AMDs position as far as CPU sockets go - right now its a matter of AM3+ for traditional CPUs (which is largely compatible with AM3 a design from 2009!) and FM2 for the latest Fusion APUs (although it was a pain them ditching FM1 so soon!).

 

Compare this to the massive number of Intel Sockets since 2009 (a quick Google says its 5) and especially if this soldering goes ahead...

[synaesthesia]

I do somehow doubt it will come to fruition but Intel could probably easily do without the enthusiast market. Would be a great shame, but a first step towards my premonitions

[sted]

I do somehow doubt it will come to fruition but Intel could probably easily do without the enthusiast market. Would be a great shame, but a first step towards my premonitions

 

why i bet vast majority of pcs are hp/acer/dell boxes that are never opened once bought

[FN-GM]

Wouldn't really bother me. Never upgraded one to be honest. With the whole fleet of machines under warranty replacement boards are not problem.

 

Would it mean that the actual motherboards are made by intel?

 

If they do this trick with the RAM that would be a loss to me.

[3s-gtech]

Won't make a huge amount of difference to my work PCs - especially as we are behind the curve as we buy recon (mostly Intel) - but it would solidify my choice to stick with AMD for home and one-off builds. I like swapping bits out, meaning I can upgrade one part at a time as I can afford it. I just have to take a big hit in performance due to the brand!

[flyinghaggis]

Seems a shame but to be honest it's virtually never worth bothering to upgrade CPU's anyway. Typically the largest performance jump you can get is around 20-30% which is rarely enough difference to justify the effort/cost of changing the CPU. In my experience if you're going to buy a new CPU you typically always need a new motherboard/RAM to go with it anyway.

 

For example take my current situation. I have an original first gen core i7-920 (socket 1336) and there's no CPU that would make a substantial difference without changing the socket type which instantly means a new motherboard. Even if I could source an i7-980x it's likely it would be cheaper and faster to just buy a new ivy bridge mobo and CPU.

[CyberNerd]

changing a cpu in 800 machines is a PITA.

This will affect home users, but nobody else.

[synaesthesia]

Dunno, changing semprons to athlon X3's in many of our desktops made a *huge* difference - nearly as much as changing IDE drives to SATA. Sometimes machines need repurposing and a CPU upgrade will aide that just fine.

Like I said though, I don't see it happening - or it'll be an option.

[SYNACK]

Yea, this will effect schools on the edge a bit more down the line as they are the ones who have to scrape working machines out of the detritus that is left over after several years of use, this just makes even less parts replaceable and recoverable. You can guarantee that the price won't go down at all or anywhere near as much as the decrease in utility for that kind of usage.

[dgsmith]

Bad idea - we have upgraded some of our 5yr old core 2 machines with better CPUs as these are now more cheaply available 2nd hand. What I don't get is, should the change go ahead, would it just affect brand-name OEM machines (HP, Dell, Lenovo etc) or even system builders like RM, Stone etc?

[localzuk]

This will affect hobbyists, and organisations who make do. We get machines with 3 year warranties, and mostly they get replaced after those 3 years, but many places can't do this. So, they have to repair what they've got. So, this will go from replacing a motherboard which goes pop for £60 to replacing a motherboard and CPU for £250. Not exactly the best news for them!

[Arthur]

Could strengthen AMDs position as far as CPU sockets go

Either that or AMD will be bankrupt by 2014. I hope not since Intel needs the competition to keep them honest.

 

Compare this to the massive number of Intel Sockets since 2009 (a quick Google says its 5)

There has only really been two Intel socket changes since 2009: LGA 1156 (Clarkdale/Lynnfield) and 1155 (Sandy/Ivy Bridge). Haswell will be the third next year with LGA 1150.

 

LGA 1366 and 2011 were for high-end desktops/workstations and enthusiasts with too much money, so don't really count.

 

this will go from replacing a motherboard which goes pop for £60 to replacing a motherboard and CPU for £250.

You may have to add DDR4 RAM to the shopping list since this is what motherboards will use from 2015/2016 onwards. If it ends up costing £300+ to replace a faulty Core i3 motherboard that originally came with DDR3 RAM, I reckon most people would rather buy a new computer.

 

would it just affect brand-name OEM machines (HP, Dell, Lenovo etc) or even system builders like RM, Stone etc?

It would affect system builders too since they will be using the same Intel CPUs as the big OEMs. Asus, Gigabyte and MSI (for example) would solder the processors to the motherboards at their factory and then supply these to RM, Stone etc.

 

I doubt Intel will solder Core i5's and i7's to motherboards, so you would be fine if you bought PCs with these processors.

Edited November 25, 2012 by Arthur

[flyinghaggis]

So, this will go from replacing a motherboard which goes pop for £60 to replacing a motherboard and CPU for £250. Not exactly the best news for them!

 

That's a good point actually. It's quite common to get a faulty motherboard (given most now have onboard audio/video/NIC/everything). It would be pretty annoying if you stumped up £200 for a top end CPU and you had to chuck it because the motherboard failed a year or two down the line.

 

Having said that I suppose it does make sense as desktops are increasingly being edged out in favour of tablets and laptops.

Edited November 25, 2012 by flyinghaggis

[glennda]

Personally i think this makes sense for laptops and such like but for desktops etc could be a pita.

 

They better not go down the apple route and solder Ram to the motherboard.

[FN-GM]

They better not go down the apple route and solder Ram to the motherboard.

 

To be fair they are not the only ones and where not the first.

[glennda]

To be fair they are not the only ones and where not the first.

 

no course they are not but probably one of the largest and high profile

[SYNACK]

no course they are not but probably one of the largest and high profile

 

A good part of their role in tech is taking smarmy practices and making them mainstream enough for the others to pull it off without being sued. 30%+ off the top on every purchase of apps or content (yeap) and now everyone else actually has to to that with stuff like books as the Apple contract mandates the rip-off extends to all other providers. Locked in app store, non-replaceable batteries, hardware locked software (OSX - Win RT) etc. etc.

 

Apple - normalising evil for at least the last decade.

[mats]

Surely, if processors are coming out as BGA only, that just opens up the market for somebody to start making bga-lga and lga-bga adaptors?

 

Great news for manufacturers of hot air soldering kit too.

 

Bit of a PITA overall though.

[gshaw]

It's also a bit of a risky one for motherboard manufacturers as they'll have to get their stocks of CPUs exactly right or face being stuck with a bunch of boards no-one wants when new CPUs come out. Might also suggest a slower rate of change in terms of new tech as the CPU now becomes an integral part of the overall product rather than just another piece of the jigsaw.

 

It's another part of the move to throwaway computing, something I don't like from a tech geek perspective but seems to be the way consumers go now (no doubt the only people to really benefit will be the large companies selling this locked down kit as usual).

[Michael]

I agree as already mentioned - soldered on for mobile computing, but separate for desktops and servers.

 

In my IT experience I've only come across two dead CPUs, but many many more dead motherboards.

[sonofsanta]

So all in all, another opportunity for Intel to artificially segment the market? They've run out of CPU features to do it with, so now they're having to extend it out onto motherboards.

 

This is all your fault, AMD.

[flyinghaggis]

 

This is all your fault, AMD.

 

I suppose Intel would probably argue that Nvidia's Tegra and the other usual ARM suspects all do it so they're just following the crowd.....

 

That and it helps Intel sell more chips....

[Guest Guest]

It's also a bit of a risky one for motherboard manufacturers as they'll have to get their stocks of CPUs exactly right or face being stuck with a bunch of boards no-one wants when new CPUs come out.

 

And it will force motherboard manufacturers to actually bother testing their motherboards before launch. Replacing faulty £100 motherboards with £500 CPUs attached to them could quickly put them out of business!

[zag]

CPU speed has meant nothing in the last 4-5 years. Anyone who says it does has been reading too much intel marketing material.

 

The only upgrades worth doing are memory up to 3gb and an SSD drive.

 

We still buy intel 2.7ghz dual cores (the ones before the "i" variety) and never had someone saying their cpu was at 100% and it was causing a bottleneck.

 

If anything the CPU market is going downwards towards slower more power efficient processors. Just look at the direction Windows 8 is going.