How many ICT technicians here teach and/or have after school clubs?

[carvjo]

..BUT schools pay teachers a great deal more than you get and I think it is unfair of them to get cheap teaching, and I also think that you are doing yourself a disservice as well. Do you not believe that you are at least, worth an instructor's salary? You may be full of integrity and work far harder than the rest of us () but the school is taking advantage of your good nature.

..

 

I agree, there is a shortage of IT specialists in primary schools, so if schools can get someone as experienced and able as @SimpleSi they can surely afford the cost of paying an instructor's rate for a couple of hours. After all, it still isn't anywhere near a teacher's salary

 

Good IT Staff should earn as much (or more) than Teaching staff..

 

I used to teach GNVQ IT (in the UK) then A Level Computer Science (Overseas) -whilst working as IT Manager in those schools. My stint overseas was a teaching hours contract where I enjoyed the long holidays... (The schools paid for me to get a teaching qualification) I have always been paid fairly and on-par, or better than teaching staff.

 

I no longer teach, but wouldn't mind doing so if there was a need.

[glennda]

Good IT Staff should earn as much (or more) than Teaching staff..

 

I used to teach GNVQ IT (in the UK) then A Level Computer Science (Overseas) -whilst working as IT Manager in those schools. My stint overseas was a teaching hours contract where I enjoyed the long holidays... (The schools paid for me to get a teaching qualification) I have always been paid fairly and on-par, or better than teaching staff.

 

I no longer teach, but wouldn't mind doing so if there was a need.

 

Tell that to the People deciding IT Technicians require no knowledge or skill - just search job evaluation on the forums!

[carvjo]

Tell that to the People deciding IT Technicians require no knowledge or skill - just search job evaluation on the forums!

 

Vote with your feet - move to an employer that will value you, pay you appropriately and pay for training..

 

In education that may mean Independent or International schools..

[elsiegee40]

In education that may mean Independent or International schools..

I work in an independent prep (primary).

 

I've turned down the "opportunity" to add teaching to my tasks

 

Twice.

 

It's no different to state schools.

[Roberto]

That's one of the saddest posts I've ever seen on here

 

AFAIC I'm employed to help the schools I work in - if I've got certain skills - then I'm not going to say "thats not in my job description" - I'm going to do my best to help.

 

You're obviously entitled to your opinion but I don't see what's sad about it. An IT professional who happens to work in a school saying "No I won't teach; I'm not a teaching professional" isn't very different to an IT Professional who works for a law firm saying "No, I won't advise company clients about internet law; I'm not a lawyer".

[glennda]

Vote with your feet - move to an employer that will value you, pay you appropriately and pay for training..

 

In education that may mean Independent or International schools..

 

I did!

[glennda]

You're obviously entitled to your opinion but I don't see what's sad about it. An IT professional who happens to work in a school saying "No I won't teach; I'm not a teaching professional" isn't very different to an IT Professional who works for a law firm saying "No, I won't advise company clients about internet law; I'm not a lawyer".

 

Its the same as one of the finance team asking if i will process the accounts for them.... errm its your job you do it!

[witch]

I'm now paid at the same rate as an HLTA but I still used to do this stuff when I wasn't paid it.

 

I think it is sad that you do not rate what you do and believe you are worth more.

[SimpleSi]

I think it is sad that you do not rate what you do and believe you are worth more.

I'm starting to lose track of what it is your against but suspecting it everything about stepping outside/above a day job

 

I started working in primary IT, mending printers/computers etc. This is my second career and I've got a little bit of go about me. I helped the teachers use IT, my cluster got into doing cluster wide IT projects (stop animation, d&T control etc for a few years) and I was interested and helped.

 

This developed into helping out in what i'd call IT intensive lessons (especially Y6 Control stuff) and eventually one of heads who had the greatest faith in my ability asked me to do PPA cover in Y5 and Y6 for 1 hour each a week.

 

As a mature (well lets say old anyway) parent/person with children aged about 11/12 at the time I didn't have too much problems in dealing with classes - went on a few behaviour management sessions (as seemingly not allowed to make children run around the field for 2 hours if they speak out of turn nowadays ) - the children seemed to like it (no so much the excel stuff!) as I was the nice man who comes in and does fun IT.

 

Like I say, I'm now at the point where I'd say my pay reflects my activites and everyone I know seems happy with it.

 

(Just got landed at short notice with a Y5 class this morning and we had a great time using Scratch to animate Humpty Dumpty - the netbook screen replacements can go ahead in the hols !)

 

Now, if someone didn't want to do this and was being forced then thats bad (or bad for Bossman losing effort and seeing someone else losing out paywise)

 

If I was a teaching union rep defending my members livelyhood, then I'd expect (not unreasonably) that they'd take a dim view of it.

 

I did try to go back on and remove my sad comment this morning but it was too late as it was an emoitional response to your views - so sorry for that

 

But I'd maintain - its really all about the kids and they (and all of my heads/teachers) are benefited by my dual role - as I think quite a few "extrovert" type geeks would be if given the chance

 

Si

Edited July 5, 2012 by SimpleSi

[SimpleSi]

I do hope this is the full half-hour arguement and not the 30 second one

Si

[klingklang]

Ive started Computer Club after school every thursday . We started stripping a pc down and rebuilding it taking photos of various hardware etc .We then rebuilt the pc installed windows and installed Audacity and now the kids are giving a vocal description of what they learned with a powerpoint to boot.

Next we are going to video production its the school centenary so hoping to do a 1900's news video etc and show in school Assembly.

Thats the fun side .Hoping to do some scratch stuff and lots lots more come September

[SYNACK]

I don't do much with the students but I do lots of training, I think of myself as a soldier fighting the wave of stupidity steadily taking over the planet. Training often has much better long term outcomes, teach a man to fish and all that. When someone breaks something they generally get a forced/passive training session. Eventually they usually either pay attention or learn with osmosis. Nothing makes a user happier than their problems evaporating in front of them, if that is because they fix it themselves automatically then all the better as it is instant. Socrates - said something along the lines of 'the only true wisdom lies in knowing that you know nothing' the sooner people get and accept that every day is about learning the better.

[bossman]

@SimpleSi:

 

I totally agree with what you have stated in you recent post and if you are happy to do this as a respected member of the staff and all is above board then I don't think anyone would disagree with you, the things that get most people's backs up are when they are asked to do things at a time when they are most vunerable and that is usually when they are tired from working 60 - 70 hour weeks trying to keep systems running 24/7/365 with very little preventative maintenance windows to work in and SLT putting more and more on top of an already overloaded team without any due recognision of that teams effort and remuneraton.

 

We all go to work for money to pay for our lifestyles and from what I read on here some people are below the poverty line and this is not fair when they work hard and have a good skillset with which schools sometimes exploit for their own benefit and to the benefit of just a few, performance pay for Teachers and SLT members is far more than for support staff believe me we all agree on this I feel.

 

Just to be treat as other professional people within the school would be a step in the right direction but so often you hear that support staff are part of a two tier system within education and until we are recognised as having a unique skillset and that we are professionals in our own right then this kind of thing is going to carry on.

 

A fair day's pay for a fair day's work has always been my working ethos and I would do anything for anyone within reason to help the teaching and learning within our school because let's face it, we all feel very passionate about our school and where it stands within the community don't we?

 

I think I have put my side across without stating that its being a jobsworth which couldn't be further from the truth as many people on here will tell you.

 

Thanks for listening or not as the case may be

Edited July 5, 2012 by bossman

[Fazza]

I think of myself as a soldier fighting the wave of stupidity steadily taking over the planet

 

I couldn't agree more!

[Oaktech]

I think of myself as a soldier fighting the wave of stupidity steadily taking over the planet.

 

Somedays I feel like that, others like I am drowning under it!

[witch]

I'm starting to lose track of what it is your against but suspecting it everything about stepping outside/above a day job

 

Not too good at listening to others then, are you? I SAID that I do go over and above my day job, and FYI, this is my THIRD career and I also have some 'go' about me. I am not happy that you make this personal when I was commenting on the point that the school should pay you for your expertise. It doesn't matter that you are happy to do it, good for you - but the school pays music instructors, and perhaps others too, so why shouldnt they pay you as well?

 

 

 

But I'd maintain - its really all about the kids and they (and all of my heads/teachers) are benefited by my dual role - as I think quite a few "extrovert" type geeks would be if given the chance

Si

I'm sure the children DO benefit, and it you enjoy it that's great. But my point, and it is my only point despite your comment about "losing track of what it is you're against" (sarcasm, now, is it? ) is that you should be paid for all this expertise.Others are paid to instruct, why shouldnt you be, and why should the school expect you to do it at your normal rate.

 

BTW, what happens to your own job when you are teaching? However much 'go' you have, you can hardly be in two places at once so unless you are giving them extra time as well as cheap expertise, surely you are not carrying out your tech roles in the hours you are paid to do so?

[pcstru]

Socrates - said something along the lines of 'the only true wisdom lies in knowing that you know nothing' the sooner people get and accept that every day is about learning the better.

 

Socrates said (pretty much[*1]) "All I know is that I know nothing". If he knew nothing how can he know that every day is about learning and how can he know that knowing that is better. And better than what?

 

'eh???

 

[*1] Not really.

Edited July 5, 2012 by pcstru

[GrumbleDook]

This is an interesting thread and strange to see the range of responses. I see no issue with anyone being asked to instruct if they have the knowledge, skills, experience and ability to instruct and/or teach. That they should be paid accordingly is an important thing and that they should also make sure that other work they are employed to do is not affected.

 

Lunchtime clubs to spark interest and to provide extra-curricular activities is a slightly different matter. If an individual is happy to do this and does a good job then go for it ... giving up your own time to take on something like that is fantastic. Whether it is helping in music clubs, setting up beehives, building a robot ... you have my respect and admiration ... just be careful not to burn yourself out and don't get walked over by being too nice.

[SYNACK]

Socrates said (pretty much[*1]) "All I know is that I know nothing". If he knew nothing how can he know that every day is about learning and how can he know that knowing that is better. And better than what?

 

'eh???

 

[*1] Not really.

The message not the words, if you admit that you don't know everything then you must admit you could know or find out more everything you experience is subtly different and new. This act of constant discovery is learning. Not as catchy in its expanded form is it

[SimpleSi]

witch said

Not too good at listening to others then, are you?

 

, so why shouldnt they pay you as well?

 

simplesi said

and every time I've reached the roof of a scale I've been moved on and I'm now paid at the same rate as an HLTA

 

15 All?

 

surely you are not carrying out your tech roles in the hours you are paid to do so?

You know - It gets worse - I take the laptops home and mend them at weekends/evenings

 

I think we've proved we are -j on this issue and there's no common ground apart from us being 2 grumpy old people

 

Si

[pcstru]

The message not the words, if you admit that you don't know everything then you must admit you could know or find out more everything you experience is subtly different and new.

No necessarily. A true sceptic may argue that 'knowing' something (anything) isn't possible, which might leave you high and dry for learning it. Know that you know nothing (Jon Snow) - as it were.

 

Not as catchy in its expanded form is it

 

More catchy to quote the great modern philosopher, Donald Rumsfeld.

[witch]

Speak for yourself!

I am neither grumpy, nor old

Pay as an HLTA doesnt match an instructor's rates, not down here anyway.

As @GrumbleDook said, there is no issue in being asked to teach as long as the pay and the time is there.

 

As for taking things home at weekends, funnily enough - even though I am apparently someone who doesnt put anything extra into their job - so do I

[SYNACK]

No necessarily. A true sceptic may argue that 'knowing' something (anything) isn't possible, which might leave you high and dry for learning it. Know that you know nothing (Jon Snow) - as it were.

 

More catchy to quote the great modern philosopher, Donald Rumsfeld.

GoT quotes I choose to take the more positive viewpoint from it although I can't dispute the potential for the other being true with people simply not able to learn anything at all in some cases, I guess 'winter' - the dark ages - may have come. What did Rummy say that was so catchy.

[pcstru]

What did Rummy say that was so catchy.

 

The Known Knowns thang.

[SYNACK]

The Known Knowns thang.

His speech writers must have been proud of that one when they came up with it It's ashamed it can't be credited to them.