Arguments for and against ipads - need info in a hurry

[witch]

I am a governor of a middle school and I have to ratify the budget tomorrow. The IT co-ord who is also the NM has laid out his plans and I agree with every single one except possibly the purchase of ipads for SEN - I am worried about the price versus other tablets.

I know that there are lots of apps for education but does this justify the price? And what about the stand-alone versus network idea?

Please can I ask for as many points pro or con as possible as quickly as possible. I know ipads cant run flash but is this likely to be an issue with SEN apps?

I am not against the whole ipad thing, I just need to be sure that the money is being spent in the best possible way for the school.

I know some of you may say to wait till windows 8 but this isnt an option.

[Michael]

Buying iPads just for SEN is not a good investment. There aren't that many great educational apps, but you also need to look at the management of them. iPads are a consumer product and not an educational/business tool. iPads are very personalised, whereas of course Windows devices are very much multi-user capable.

 

You're right also iPads do not support flash, so a whole load of websites will be locked out. If you do a direct comparison with netbooks, they're much better value for money compared to the iPad.

 

I don't dislike the iPad, but for education, it's seriously over rated and money could be better invested.

Edited April 17, 2012 by Michael

[GrumbleDook]

A few arguments on both sides.

 

Against : A lot of work to centralise the management for only a handful of devices, making it a resource heavy investment, and possibly costly as well if getting a Mac Server, support from ASE, training, etc. If stand-alone then they become time hungry devices which are likely to need frequent support to manage updates, rebuild the machines, etc. The applications presently have no volume licence so you end up with either multiple IDs and purchasing once on each ID, or fudging it. The applications could end up running the curriculum rather than the iPad being a tool to enable the curriculum. Is the wireless network up to it? Storage? Charging? Likelihood of them being damaged? Some websites and resources are Flash-based and this can mean more work to find alternatives.

 

For: Whilst centralised management can be expensive it can be done and there are various MDM vendors and ASEs out there who can do it for you, but at a cost so you can weigh up the cost v the benefits. The range of SEN apps is growing daily and there are a good number for free. The range of experience in the SEN community is growing every day and there are some really good guides / people out there to help make the most of these devices. Pedagogically, how the devices are used and the difference they make should be transferable between platforms and devices, so should a killer app appear on another device at a later date then this should not lock you in, but you have to be careful. As a personal device it has a good range of flexible option, but so do most devices now.

 

Not the most extensive list ... but a start perhaps.

[GrumbleDook]

There aren't that many great educational apps

 

Actually ... there are. A fair number are not labelled as 'education' but then again, neither is MS OneNote. Have a read of James Winchester's blog for examples SEN Classroom

[Michael]

I still don't think it's a good investment. And what's wrong with a real guitar or keyboard? That's how I learned when I was at school.

 

I would much rather buy 2/3 netbooks instead of 1 iPad.

[witch]

Thanks guys - I think we can forget the centralised bit as I think he is going for stand-alone beasts.

More please -

If you think *yes* - what makes ipads better IYHO?

If you think *no* - what would you use instead?

Edited April 17, 2012 by witch

[Michael]

Well you have Android, but that's about it really for the moment. At least with an Android you can choose from a range of brands, just as you will with Windows 8 tablets Q4 2012.

 

You could argue even if they will be standalone, they'll still need syncing and updating, unless (whoever's in charge of maintaining them) does it all manually? Not a great job and will just end up being a mess!

[alttab]

Thanks guys - I think we can forget the centralised bit as I think he is going for stand-alone beasts.

More please -

If you think *yes* - what makes ipads better IYHO?

If you think *no* - what would you use instead?

 

on a number of levels the ipad is a better device IMHO, better battery life, snappier experience, more user friendly gui (v. important at primary level especially). but crucially the app ecosystem is much more polished. How many apps dedicated for the ipad - hundreds of thousands. Plus i would guess there are now many primaries now comfortable navigating the ecosystem and picking out apps which seem to find flavour across a number of schools in different parts of the country.

 

How many apps designed specifically for the latest tablets running a version of android that atleast tries to compliment the undoubtedly impressive hardware specs of the latest devices ? and not scaled up version of apps which will need to run on a variety of different smartphones from different manufacturers.

 

Cost is one thing, but the ipad2 will have come down in price since the introduction of the new ipad, and IT folk will and should argue for TCO benefits, and the T&L benefits. Rather than just Tablet A sticker price is cheaper than Tablet B.

[MYK-IT]

iPad 2 16Gb going for £289.99 (Inc VAT) at present (ebuyer eBay store).

 

Android tablets from £100 upwards.

 

Going for an iPad (or any other tablet) should be on the basis that it is the 'solution' to your requirements; not vice versa. (E.g. not, we like tablets what can we do with them?)

[bossman]

@witch:

 

I would be in more in favour of good netbooks with windows 7 or 8 and a good phonics software with a windows version of Kindle plus a good text to speach software package such as text tease read write version 12 which can be networked and comes with a site license.

 

We have been testing IPads version2 for a few months now and to be quite honest they are very good for some subjects but for others they are just a distraction. Unless you are willing to spend time and money on a good system to mange them it will be quite time consuming having to constantly update apps and re-sync using the IPhone utility, I know there is another IPad utility which does this but requires lots of other stuff to go with it.

 

Unless there is absolute justification for the IPads then I feel as @Michael stated they are a costly investment.

[AshleyBishop]

I still don't think it's a good investment. And what's wrong with a real guitar or keyboard? That's how I learned when I was at school.

 

I would much rather buy 2/3 netbooks instead of 1 iPad.

 

iPad 2 £250 Ex Vat....What quality are the netbooks going to be getting 3 at that price?

[elsiegee40]

We trialled an RM Slate with a lad with physical SEN and he got on well with it. We liked it as, being windows, he could use the same software as everyone else... and being Windows helped with management too. He did need to use it on a writing slope not flat on the desk... The slope made it simpler for him to operate.

 

It really depends on how they intend to use them. They won't suit all AEN pupils. They should be chosen because they are the best tool for the job, not because they're a tool and we'll find the job they can be used for.

[SimpleSi]

I've had an Ipad and a Galaxy 10.1 tab for about 6 months and they are just not good enough value to be able to make a case to use them as a general purpose tool.

 

There is basically nothing in the education field for 'droids and the proxy server issues make life difficult (SUPPOSED to be sorted now but you'd need to actuall test the exact device before purchasing as you can't trust Google on this issue!! )

 

The ipads work flawlessly except no flash - there are some education apps around and they are superb sound/stop motion animation tools.

 

But £400 vs £200 for a netbook that does everything - its just not a contest at the moment- when they are £100 - then time to look again

 

Si

 

PS If there was a cheap windows slate running Win7 at £200 then I might be interested in them

Edited April 17, 2012 by SimpleSi

[RoF]

In your role as Governor shouldn’t you be making sure that the school is getting the best value for the equipment they feel will improve and support children’s learning? Not deciding on what equipment should or shouldn’t be used. You are not responsible for the integration, maintenance and support of the solution, the school or schools support provider is.

 

Your role is to be strategic putting pupils' needs foremost and basing decisions on standards rather than solely on funding.

[elsiegee40]

I agree with you @RoF, and I think that @witch has asked this question so she can question rather than choose.

 

When the papers arrive for a Governors meeting, you don't have long to read them through. The school staff will have presented a spending plan to the GB for approval and the Governors role is not to rubber stamp that plan. Governors are expected to challenge and ensure the school is getting [buzzphrase]Best Value[/buzzphrase]

 

With limited time and a gut feeling that 'shiny' was in the plan, I'd do exactly what witch has done... Get advice on the pros and cons so I could ask the right questions and satisfy myself as a Governor that this was the best plan for the needs of the pupils.

Edited April 18, 2012 by elsiegee40

[mac_shinobi]

Buying iPads just for SEN is not a good investment. There aren't that many great educational apps, but you also need to look at the management of them. iPads are a consumer product and not an educational/business tool. iPads are very personalised, whereas of course Windows devices are very much multi-user capable.

 

You're right also iPads do not support flash, so a whole load of websites will be locked out. If you do a direct comparison with netbooks, they're much better value for money compared to the iPad.

 

I don't dislike the iPad, but for education, it's seriously over rated and money could be better invested.

 

Not trying to be pro apple here but I thought on mobile devices flash was being phased out and going to HTML 5 which afaik the iPads / iPhones etc can do ??

 

As all the above comments it depends on what they will be used for and what you need the tool ( whether it be an android, netbook, iPad or whatever ) to do rather then we can only go with an iOS or android based device or this tablet has a better spec but has windows vs this tablet has a lower spec but has iOS or android etc ?

 

Is most of the things you use flash based, will the flash based material be converted / ported to html 5 at any point ?

 

App wise ( comparing android, iOS and windows devices ) which one has the most appropriate apps that you need to use ?

 

Obviously once that is established then you can compare similar devices in an attempt to choose hopefully the most durable and appropriate device as no doubt being in a school they will get ( excuse the pun here ) but hammered ( not literally though )

Edited April 18, 2012 by mac_shinobi

[synaesthesia]

I vote yes. Having recently implemented them into a school in a difficult area,where ICT was markedly poor, the attitude to ICT changed massively. It was only a half-class set (16) just before the price drop thanks to the iPad 3 (call it the iPad near me at your peril!) yet the amount of apps available under so many subjects is astonishing. Both myself and the ICT coordinator took one away with us to get to grips (everyone here knows my stance on Apple and some of their products so obviously I wasn't very good with them) - whilst I could come up with a few app suggestions and setups based on the good work of so many others around here (NorthantsBLT contacts) it did not prepare me for the lease of life it gave the ICT coordinator. Within a week he had excelled himself and found a whole hoard of apps from the very serious to the very light, all suitable for purpose and the children look forward to ICT. We have been able to "integrate" them into the Windows system for some tasks thanks to VNC, and I'm really looking forward to seeing them being used in an outdoor classroom.

The deal we got meant we had a Macbook and storage/sync case thrown in so app syncing/ipad restoration is as simple as plugging it back in at the end of the day.

 

We (bearing in mind I only visit this school for half a day a week) went into this a little too blind even by my admission, despite this and a fair bit of research it worked and worked well. With the right aims in place, I see no reason not to recommend an iPad or other tablet solution in the primary schoolplace. We do have an RM Slate with Windows 8 at our school however can't really pass judgement on it just yet - it's still not as flowing or intuitive as an iPad.

 

If there's any information I can provide, I'll be more than happy to speak to you about it, I'm rather proud of the school's achievements.

Edited April 18, 2012 by synaesthesia

[Achandler]

My concern, is more to do with the life of the device. Is it going to last 2 years? 3 years?

[SimpleSi]

We have been able to "integrate" them into the Windows system for some tasks thanks to VNC

 

Could you explain a bit more - do you mean you use them to control Windows machines e.g turn them into very expensive mice with screens?

 

If using them to inspire ICT - then they are great (but expesive) but in terms of value for money in assisting education for SEN children(????)

Si

[synaesthesia]

Yes, that's pretty much it - mice with integrated displays. It's rarely used, and when it is it's relating to programs like Clicker so any delays are not a problem. It's not so much integration, rather an extension.

The relatively small outlay for the 16 iPads we put in place has been more than worth the outcome already, and they've only been in place for a couple of months. Obviously it's not a one size fits all solution and it will take a lot of research for each individual establishment to find out if it will be worth it.

[witch]

I do indeed put pupil's needs foremost and would never base a decision purely on funding - but as the ipads are expensive I need to make sure that they ARE going to provide the" best value" for what we want and need - if they are, then fine, no problem, but as the schools "critical friend" it is necessary that I check.

There is a definite "it's new, it's slick, it's Apple, I want it" movement in some areas!

I am in a unique position as the IT governor of this particular school, as I work as NM in the near-identical school half a mile away in the same pyramid, so I have a very good idea of the sorts of problems the school faces in terms of SEN provision etc.

as @elsiegee40 says, we dont have long to read the information and we are not there to rubber stamp it. We are required to question everything, and I know that the questions will be directed at me as I am the IT person. Hence the search for information!

 

*just as a point of info - governors may not be responsible for integration and maintenance, but we ARE responsible for the cost of same

Edited April 18, 2012 by witch

[pcstru]

Have they done a pilot/trial? If not perhaps why not and if so, how did they measure the impact of the devices. If this is a trial how will they measure the impact of the devices in terms of educational outcomes and critically, what then will constitute success or failure of the trial?

 

Sorry - that's not pros/cons of the device, but without answers to those kind of questions, I don't see how anyone can ever assess value in the context of education.

[witch]

That is a very good point @pcstru - I will ask that question

[Hedghog]

These being SEN iPads I hope you are factoring insurance into this decision. They are not as robust as people think, I know the gorilla glass is almost bomb proof but the internals are not. Just had one of the teachers drop an iPad, rough cost of fixing it £150 to a total loss (Apple dealers quote being £50 to find out what has happened the around £200 to fix plus loss of warrenty) but the glass has survived, it's everthing under the glass that has gone.

[Michael]

Not trying to be pro apple here but I thought on mobile devices flash was being phased out and going to HTML 5 which afaik the iPads / iPhones etc can do ??

 

Think about it like this - Apple decided that Flash wasn't stable enough, so dropped support and went with HTML5.

 

There are fundamental problems with this however. HTML5 as a standard still isn't complete, so if you have a website which is fully flashed based, you're essentially asking software developers to work with an uncomplete standard. It of course costs money to re-work everything, which is why many educational based websites (for example) haven't made the change as yet.

 

Also, not all browsers support the same flavours and additional features of HTML5, so cross browser support is a headache also. Flash is cross browser supported, which is why it's still the number 1 choice.

 

We're definitely in a transition period between Flash and HTML5, very much like 32/64Bit versions of Windows, but at least you can still run most 32Bit applications on a 64Bit OS. The way to support Flash and HTML5 is to have essentially two separate versions. Until the HTML5 standard is fully complete to an official version 1 for example, many companies quite rightly will hold back.