Local pay for teachers - Industrial action looms

[Dos_Box]

In the past few years pretty much all of our school based members in the Uk have been through the process of having their wages set at a central 'local' level. Now the govt want teachers to have their wages set in a similar way, but even down at a school by school level.

 

BBC News - Schools could be hit by industrial action over pay

 

I can see lots of plusses and minuses here. Thoughts?

[Pottsey]

Should we support them after the lack for support we had from them over Job evolution? A lot of support staff both IT and TA’s have lost of lot of wage and on the whole the teachers did not care or support us. What’s the betting now it affects them they want us to support them?

[elsiegee40]

Strike was inevitable given the government's recent announcements. However, with the government trying to make every school an academy, the local pay negotiations were inevitable anyway. Academies don't have to stick to national pay schemes.

 

Personally, with one child doing A level and the other GCSE this year, I'll just be hoping for minimal disruption.

[LosOjos]

Pump more money in to the rich areas and less in to the poor. Where have I heard this before?

 

[drops political hand grenade and runs away]

[TechMonkey]

Donning my flame retardant pants for a moment & being hired by Beelzebub himself, I can kinda see the reasoning. Why pay someone in an area where cost of living is low the same as someone where the cost of living is high. You either have to sort everything out with local (read London) weightings or end up raising and raising pay so those in high cost areas can live. Would it make school areas competitive, as to attract the best teachers they will have to pay a sensible wage for the area.

[broc]

Donning my flame retardant pants for a moment & being hired by Beelzebub himself, I can kinda see the reasoning. Why pay someone in an area where cost of living is low the same as someone where the cost of living is high. You either have to sort everything out with local (read London) weightings or end up raising and raising pay so those in high cost areas can live. Would it make school areas competitive, as to attract the best teachers they will have to pay a sensible wage for the area.

 

How about balancing things out by moving jobs to lower-paid areas?

[glennda]

How about balancing things out by moving jobs to lower-paid areas?

 

But you can't do that with a school...

[Gatt]

I'm staying well away from Teachers and strikes - everytime they do something BAD happens to me..

[broc]

But you can't do that with a school...

True, I was thinking of the wider issues of regional wage differentials across job sectors, not just schools; in areas where unemployment is high, the private sector already pay lower wages as people are so desperate they will grab at any job. Lowering public sector wages in those areas will allow the private sector employers to pay even less, especially if the Govt freeze or even get rid of the minimum wage.

 

Once wages fall too low there ceases to be any incentive to work. The minimum wage is just enough to provide incentive at present. Having said that, there is a chance that the lowest paid council workers will fall below the national minimum wage level later this year if it goes up.

Edited March 26, 2012 by broc

[X-13]

I can see lots of plusses and minuses here. Thoughts?

 

After walking in this morning and hearing a teacher say "I'm going on strike tomorrow, I've got tickets to the ideal home show"[paraphrased]... I really don't care.

 

 

If you're going on strike, go on strike. Don't use it like a day off.

[Garacesh]

If you're going on strike, go on strike. Don't use it like a day off.

This. I've always wondered how many 'Strikers' are actually on the picket lines.. Not just with teaching but with every industry.

[mthomas08]

Should we support them after the lack for support we had from them over Job evolution? A lot of support staff both IT and TA’s have lost of lot of wage and on the whole the teachers did not care or support us. What’s the betting now it affects them they want us to support them?

 

Sadly I have to completely agree, a lost of support staff here lot their jobs or had to "Re-Apply" and a few were in tears as a result. We didnt go on strike, everyone just accepted it.

 

So this time round: I couldnt care less

Edited March 27, 2012 by mthomas08
Spelling..... new keyboard!

[TechMonkey]

This. I've always wondered how many 'Strikers' are actually on the picket lines.. Not just with teaching but with every industry.

 

Surely if they are not in work then they are on strike. I have no issue with people taking the day shopping as some people don't like confrontation of a picket line. I went on my first march the last time we went on strike as previously I haven't gone in as I'm not a fan of being stuck in large crowds, let alone large crowds with lots of police around who may be bored.

 

When you consider that during the General Strike workers were told to go for long walks, enjoy parks and spend time with their family, you can't really say that people can't enjoy themselves. Come on, if they are loosing a days pay they may as well have some fun.

 

But I do agree with showing the same amount of support we were shown in previous years.

[Gardinho]

This. I've always wondered how many 'Strikers' are actually on the picket lines.. Not just with teaching but with every industry.

 

The picket line has a maximum limit of 6 members per union.

 

Picketing and picket lines : Directgov - Employment

 

The union rep wouldn't be doing their job properly if they couldn't get 6 members (depending on circumstances).

 

As it happens, I don't have much sympathy with the Teachers at my current school or my last one. I can't recall a single teacher even feigning an interest in the support staff's plight over single status.

[Achandler]

Yes but you forgot "we are all in it together" unless your a millionaire or a super high paid worker, where your not really in anything at all, except a fit of laughter at watching politicians squabble over petty things.

 

There goes the second polical hand grenade of this thread.

[X-13]

There goes the second polical hand grenade of this thread.

 

Let's hope no one uses a holy hand grenade [of antioch].

[mole]

There's a possibility of teachers in the north-east of England having their pay freeze for years and years and years

 

The horror! Who in their right mind would stand for that. oh...

[ButterflyMoon]

The horror! Who in their right mind would stand for that. oh...

 

That would be us then the SUPPORT STAFF!! Sigh

[CAM]

Support staff had a negotiating body at one point, but when ConDem cut it the reaction was one of confusion. Confusion that we had a body but no-one knew it existed!

[witch]

Having been a governor for the last umpteen years, I have watched many aspects of school management move towards a business model - and therefore I think salaries could well do with being set locally. Every area is different, every school is different and so a school should be able to decide for itself what to pay. Perhaps there should be national guidelines or even bands to follow, but ultimately a school should be able to pay what it wants to.

After all, twas ever thus in the real world...

[sparkeh]

On one hand I can see the argument that if you do a job you get paid a certain amount no matter where you do it, on the other the reality is that the the wage you receive means different things depending on where you leave due to local living costs.

 

However I think the real issue is what will happen if these changes come in.

The Government wants to balance public and private sector pay taking into account local living costs, as teachers in the North have (in general) lower living costs they (relatively) have a better standard of living than those in the South. Therefore teachers in the North can look forward a long future of pay freezes whilst they see their counterparts in the South getting rises. Does the Government really think that people are going to sit around and watch this happen without people feeling pretty peed off with the whole thing? And what happens if people decide they want to migrate to the areas with the higher pay? We end up with a shortage of teachers in the North. What happens when the Government needs to attract more people to an area of work? They offer more money.

 

Another potential consequence of this is that areas begin to compete with each other. If an LA decides it wants to recruit the best teachers it possibly can then it could hike the wages it pays. Other LAs get on board and begin to try and attract the best staff. As Harriet Harmon said the other day, the danger is that public sector wages actually spiral up rather balancing out.

 

Personally I am undecided about this but think that there are a lot of potential pitfalls in this that the Government appears to be ignoring and will probably press ahead regardless.

Edited March 27, 2012 by sparkeh

[TechMonkey]

... And what happens if people decide they want to migrate to the areas with the higher pay? We end up with a shortage of teachers in the North. What happens when the Government needs to attract more people to an area of work? They offer more money.

 

Another potential consequence of this is that areas begin to compete with each other. If an LA decides it wants to recruit the best teachers it possibly can then it could hike the wages it pays. Other LAs get on board and begin to try and attract the best staff. As Harriet Harmon said the other day, the danger is that public sector wages actually spiral up rather balancing out.

 

People migrating shouldn't be an issue because the higher wages will be off set by higher living costs if people move into higher living areas without realising they won't be any better off then they are a bit silly. Th only issue will be one of will we get commuting teachers? Teacher lives in Luton and teaches in London, as is known in the business sector? I don't see it happening but that is the only thing that would throw things into array.

 

As for wages spiralling up, I don't see this as a bad issue & I'm surprised Labour would complain about it. If a school wants and can afford the best staff why shouldn't they. Other schools would have to take stock, do they also increase their wages or do they offer a better package (smaller class sizes, better facilities etc). If it was extended to Support staff it would mean people would maybe start getting nearer a more realistic wage, we could stop trying to recruit "Web-gurus" for college money. But I expect there will be all kinds of conditions attached & will be abolished after a couple of years.

[witch]

Teacher lives in Luton and teaches in London, as is known in the business sector? I don't see it happening but that is the only thing that would throw things into array.

 

It already does - I know of at least two teachers who live down here in Dorset but teach in London - one stays away Mon-Thurs and the other commutes.

Wouldn't it be nice to think that the spiralling wages would be extended to support staff? *cloud-cuckoo land*

[jamesb]

It already does - I know of at least two teachers who live down here in Dorset but teach in London - one stays away Mon-Thurs and the other commutes.

Wouldn't it be nice to think that the spiralling wages would be extended to support staff? *cloud-cuckoo land*

 

Won't happen unless support staff start moving out of education in protest. Once there's actual demand, I'd imagine they'll have to re-evaluate things, but at the moment it seems a popular way to get into IT (and it is valuable experience, a lot of places like to see schools on IT staff's CVs).