Jollity Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 I have been putting together a plan for replacing our XP computer suite with (hopefully) two suites of 20 Windows 7 laptops. We have Windows 7 on a few machines, but the network is not well setup for Windows 7 yet. Small school so only about twenty staff involved. I do not have much previous experience with imaging or using wireless laptops for whole classes, though I will have some outside help. We also need to replace our classroom management: current frontrunner is Impero. It was suggested that I run my list of tasks involved and rough time estimates past those with some more experience. The time estimates seem generous, but I always think that about my estimates and it rarely works out that way. Anyone got any thoughts? What have I missed? Determining most suitable, best value laptop model – requires consultation with SMT, staff and governors – 20hr Ensuring group policy and other settings set up appropriately for Windows 7 – 4hr Setting up Windows 7 default profile and mandatory pupil profile – 16hr Resolving compatibility issues of SoftEase – 6hr (potentially a lot less if all works fine) Migrating school over from ActivPrimary to ActiveInspire - 20hr Investigating alternatives to Impero - 2hr Installing Impero - 3hr Testing Impero – 4hr (spread over a month or so) Potentially if Impero found unsuitable – installing and testing further monitoring software – not estimated Unpacking laptops and setting up in trolley - 6hr Preparing laptop for imaging - 12hr Setting up and testing image – 4hr Deploying image – 4hr (largely unattended) Training staff in use of laptops, Windows 7, Office 2010 – 8hr (spread over multiple weeks) Preparing image for current suite machines for use in pre-school – 6hr Setting up and testing that image - 2hr
NikChillin Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 Why laptops? We have found you can get better spec pc cheaper and the life of the laptops are limited. The battery will be dead after about 18 months so it will need replacing or be plugged in. The damage to laptops is far worse than pc's. Laptop trolleys are expensive cupboards - which is what they are after the battery has expired. We did this and have since discovered at our cost it was a waste of money.
russdev Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 I have been putting together a plan for replacing our XP computer suite with (hopefully) two suites of 20 Windows 7 laptops. We have Windows 7 on a few machines, but the network is not well setup for Windows 7 yet. Small school so only about twenty staff involved. I do not have much previous experience with imaging or using wireless laptops for whole classes, though I will have some outside help. We also need to replace our classroom management: current frontrunner is Impero. It was suggested that I run my list of tasks involved and rough time estimates past those with some more experience. The time estimates seem generous, but I always think that about my estimates and it rarely works out that way. Anyone got any thoughts? What have I missed? Determining most suitable, best value laptop model – requires consultation with SMT, staff and governors – 20hr Ensuring group policy and other settings set up appropriately for Windows 7 – 4hr Setting up Windows 7 default profile and mandatory pupil profile – 16hr Resolving compatibility issues of SoftEase – 6hr (potentially a lot less if all works fine) Migrating school over from ActivPrimary to ActiveInspire - 20hr Investigating alternatives to Impero - 2hr Installing Impero - 3hr Testing Impero – 4hr (spread over a month or so) Potentially if Impero found unsuitable – installing and testing further monitoring software – not estimated Unpacking laptops and setting up in trolley - 6hr Preparing laptop for imaging - 12hr Setting up and testing image – 4hr Deploying image – 4hr (largely unattended) Training staff in use of laptops, Windows 7, Office 2010 – 8hr (spread over multiple weeks) Preparing image for current suite machines for use in pre-school – 6hr Setting up and testing that image - 2hr Install Of Impero will take 30 minutes at most when we do remote install of software we book first 30 minutes to do install and then we stay on the line as long as you want us to. So we can go over initial training and anything want help setting up. Russell p.s I can think of a way of reducing the list by two hours remove option 6 "Investigating alternatives to Impero - 2hr" 1
elsiegee40 Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 In many schools, @NikChillin, especially primaries, ICT Suites are going by SLT decision mostly to reclaim space... Jollity may not have a choice in this. 1
Jollity Posted February 16, 2012 Author Posted February 16, 2012 Why laptops? We have found you can get better spec pc cheaper and the life of the laptops are limited. I take your points. I have read many similar views here. The issue is space. The site is tiny and they really want to rip the ICT suite out to make room for another classroom. Even if I strongly objected, I do not think I could get a change from laptops - the decision on laptops was already taken when I joined the school and they have already purchased the Wi-Fi system. I think that part of the plan must be treated as a fixed point.
Jollity Posted February 16, 2012 Author Posted February 16, 2012 Install Of Impero will take 30 minutes at most when we do remote install of software we book first 30 minutes to do install and then we stay on the line as long as you want us to. So we can go over initial training and anything want help setting up. Glad to hear. That would include clearing up the existing monitoring solution as well, but I take your point and will cut that estimate somewhat.
Steve21 Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 •Preparing laptop for imaging - 12hr Guess it depends how your imaging is setup, but apart from enabling PXE boot etc, what needs setting up? (Roughly 30 mins per laptop in your example). Or are you doing manual removals etc etc? Steve
HarryMonkey Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 Why are you spreading your training over multiple weeks? If people are going to use them they'll want to be able to do so straight away. I think you'll need to concentrate your training in to the beginning of term in as a short a time as possible. 1
Jollity Posted February 16, 2012 Author Posted February 16, 2012 Guess it depends how your imaging is setup, but apart from enabling PXE boot etc, what needs setting up? (Roughly 30 mins per laptop in your example). Or are you doing manual removals etc etc? Imaging would be WDS. My meaning by that step was setting up the machine from which the image is taken: installing all the software needed and setting up the (per-machine) settings correctly. It may have been better to say "preparing the image".
Jollity Posted February 16, 2012 Author Posted February 16, 2012 Why are you spreading your training over multiple weeks? If people are going to use them they'll want to be able to do so straight away. I think you'll need to concentrate your training in to the beginning of term in as a short a time as possible. Fair point: there should be a training session or sessions in the first week. The multiple weeks was to indicate the requirement for extra support when staff hit problems, but it would probably be better to split the item in two.
round2it Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 how you going to licence your win 7 machines oem ? volume licence only ask as we only have 20 machines with win 7 so was not worth setting up the volume licence
NikChillin Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 I take your points. I have read many similar views here. The issue is space. The site is tiny and they really want to rip the ICT suite out to make room for another classroom. Even if I strongly objected, I do not think I could get a change from laptops - the decision on laptops was already taken when I joined the school and they have already purchased the Wi-Fi system. I think that part of the plan must be treated as a fixed point. Fair doo's
steve Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 Do you need time remove and dispose of current XP computers? Other things you may need - curriculum software (if not part of image), AV software - usually left off an image, MIS software? I'd be tempted to allow a bit more time for the GPO set up and the profile creation. Took me double that (a full week) to get it to my liking. 1
glennda Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 Migrating school over from ActivPrimary to ActiveInspire - 20hr 20 Hours? it can be rolled out via MSI in a matter in mins? Unless you mean training time which even so i don't think takes 20hr's. 1
Jollity Posted February 17, 2012 Author Posted February 17, 2012 how you going to licence your win 7 machines oem ? volume licence only ask as we only have 20 machines with win 7 so was not worth setting up the volume licence Probably OEM for Windows itself from whoever sells the machines, then Select Licensing from a supplier to get Office - Select is a volume license system, but you don't actually need volume to take advantage of it as a school, as the educational software suppliers lump all the schools together. That is how we have done it so far. I possibly should check whether the latest terms of the OVS licensing would make it worthwhile, but my predecessor concluded the school was too small to make software rental worthwhile. Fair doo's Sorry if I was snappy. Reports of the problems with laptops make me nervous at the moment. Do you need time remove and dispose of current XP computers? Yes good point. I am planning to reuse some in the pre-school in an isolate network, stash some and dispose of the rest, but I have not put in any time for hauling them around. Other things you may need - curriculum software (if not part of image), AV software - usually left off an image, MIS software? AV install should probably be on there, though it seems to deploy fine to Windows 7, so only half hour or so. MIS software will not be on the laptops I don't think. TextEase seems to be the only non-web based curriculum software that is used at the moment, but I should keep an eye out for other things. Though you have just reminded me I should check the scanner drivers work on 64-bit Windows 7. I'd be tempted to allow a bit more time for the GPO set up and the profile creation. Took me double that (a full week) to get it to my liking. Could be right. I will bump that up a bit. 20 Hours? it can be rolled out via MSI in a matter in mins? Unless you mean training time which even so i don't think takes 20hr's. I was using a broad meaning of "deploy" to include all the human factors of training. I was also including time for testing it worked with our set up and resolving any problems with it. However it is probably over-generous, and I did not know they provided a MSI - that should certainly cut the estimate. Do you happen to know if the MSI clears up ActivPrimary as well?
round2it Posted February 17, 2012 Posted February 17, 2012 dont forget unboxing time and Security marking taking serial numbers, this takes forever but is essential 1
elsiegee40 Posted February 17, 2012 Posted February 17, 2012 dont forget unboxing time and Security marking taking serial numbers, this takes forever but is essential Call it admin time and allow for time for logging what you remove to take it off the asset register... along with time to register extended warranties, etc. Also allow time for sorting out printing. It can be a PITA persuading printers to behave when you are making such a radical change to the network. Have you allowed time for sorting out compatibility of non-network peripherals that may be room/machine specific such as in science? I'm thinking dataloggers, microscopes... ? 1
glennda Posted February 17, 2012 Posted February 17, 2012 Not sure if it clears activ primary but aslong as the drivers are compatible with both versions of the software you can.run them alongside each other. Toby
Kitkatninja Posted February 18, 2012 Posted February 18, 2012 What about your infrastructure? Have you considered wireless? Or are you going to be letting staff/students plug/unplug the network cables everytime they use the laptops? This if you have a laptop trolley to store and charge them. With the laptop trolley's, if they are going to be mobile (eg with wheels) or static, use the laptops own chargers or built in ones, then ensure that the sockets that you use can handle the power requirements (we had a laptop trolley that kept on tripping the circuit they were on, due to the amount of power it was using). With regards to the laptop, it's not just the laptop you have to think about. It's also the warranty, alot of warranties with cover the hardware from hardware faults for 3 years, however they won't cover the laptop from accidential damage (that we see so much of in school's, if you catch my drift). Also, if your school uses any old software, you may want to test them out first or update them. While compatibility is better for older software packages (compared to Vista), there is no guarantee that all old software packages will work with Win 7. The time to invetigate GPO's, increase that. This is a complex area. 1
Jollity Posted February 18, 2012 Author Posted February 18, 2012 dont forget unboxing time and Security marking taking serial numbers, this takes forever but is essential Call it admin time and allow for time for logging what you remove to take it off the asset register... along with time to register extended warranties, etc. This kind of stuff was supposed to be included in "Unpacking laptops and setting up in trolley - 6hr", but I had not considered all the aspects you point out. It also occurs to me that I will likely have to do this on two occasions, once for each suite, so I will split it up. Also allow time for sorting out printing. It can be a PITA persuading printers to behave when you are making such a radical change to the network. Yes that would probably be worth adding. I have had a heck of time with getting some older printers to work properly with Windows 7, though fortunately the printers here are pretty new. Have you allowed time for sorting out compatibility of non-network peripherals that may be room/machine specific such as in science? I'm thinking dataloggers, microscopes... ? I had not thought of data loggers. I think science do have some. I was thinking they could make do with using them on the science room's PC for the time being. However I probably ought to get the software into the image if possible, so they probably should be done in advance. Not sure if it clears activ primary but aslong as the drivers are compatible with both versions of the software you can.run them alongside each other. I do not really want to run them alongside each other because I think it would cause support headaches. For a start, the saved files from ActivInspire are not compatible with ActivPrimary. However removing the shortcuts to ActivPrimary may be enough to prevent it being used. What about your infrastructure? Have you considered wireless? A Ruckus wireless system has already commissioned for installation at Easter. With the laptop trolley's, if they are going to be mobile (eg with wheels) or static, use the laptops own chargers or built in ones, then ensure that the sockets that you use can handle the power requirements (we had a laptop trolley that kept on tripping the circuit they were on, due to the amount of power it was using). The trolleys will be kept in one place as there are too many stairs and narrow corridors to move them. Thank you for the tip on checking the power requirements. I should put in some time for planning and discussions on exactly where we are going to store the things, including checking issues like that. With regards to the laptop, it's not just the laptop you have to think about. It's also the warranty, alot of warranties with cover the hardware from hardware faults for 3 years, however they won't cover the laptop from accidential damage (that we see so much of in school's, if you catch my drift). I see your point. Aside from buying desktops, which is almost certainly not an option, do you have any suggestions for ameliorating the issue? Perhaps insurance would cover it, though I am guessing that would be prohibitively expensive. Also, if your school uses any old software, you may want to test them out first or update them. While compatibility is better for older software packages (compared to Vista), there is no guarantee that all old software packages will work with Win 7. I will double check, but I have not found any such software yet. All that seems to be in use is web-based stuff, standard software like Office, and TextEase. The time to invetigate GPO's, increase that. This is a complex area. Roger!
witch Posted February 18, 2012 Posted February 18, 2012 The points I would have raised would be: More time for GPOs and printers Possibly more time for creating image if this includes looking into msi creation for old software or conversely trying to find the CD for the software to install it on the machine to be imaged Spend some time choosing a trolley - they vary a lot - get one that has customised power so that you dont have the adaptors flailing around inside the thing. Or if you do, make sure you choosed one where the adaptors are easy to get to. IF the laptops are to stay in one place, consider a solution to fix them to the bench - I have seen a school use velcro to great effect - sounds odd but a wide strip of stick-on velcro under the laptop and a similar bit on the bench allowed for some adjustment of position but kept the laptop secure. 1
Jollity Posted February 18, 2012 Author Posted February 18, 2012 Spend some time choosing a trolley - they vary a lot - get one that has customised power so that you dont have the adaptors flailing around inside the thing. Or if you do, make sure you choosed one where the adaptors are easy to get to. The current front runner is a LapCabby trolley. They do not have customized power, but they do have individual slots at the back for each adapter. You can get to the adapters fairly easily but you have to take a back panel off. The wires to plug into the laptops are clipped next to each laptop tray. Do you see any potential problems with that setup? IF the laptops are to stay in one place, consider a solution to fix them to the bench - I have seen a school use velcro to great effect - sounds odd but a wide strip of stick-on velcro under the laptop and a similar bit on the bench allowed for some adjustment of position but kept the laptop secure. They will almost certainly be moved too much for that, but I like the idea. We should also velcro down the children.
Jollity Posted February 18, 2012 Author Posted February 18, 2012 Thank for your suggestions everyone. Here is the current state of the plan: Determining most suitable, best value laptop model – requires consultation with SMT, teachers and governors – 20 hr Determining the best sites for the laptop trolleys, making space, ensuring sufficient power availability - 3hr Ensuring group policy and other settings set up appropriately for Windows 7 – 12 hr Setting up Windows 7 default profile and mandatory pupil profile – 16hr Resolving compatibility issues of SoftEase – 6hr (potentially a lot less if all works fine) Checking for issues with ActivInspire on our system - 2hr Installing ActivInspire and removing ActivPrimary – 2hr Preparing and training Teachers - 5hr Investigating alternatives to Impero - 2hr Installing Impero and removing Netops – 2hr Training teachers in using Impero - 2hr Testing Impero – 4hr (spread over a month or so) Potentially if Impero found unsuitable – installing and testing further monitoring software – not estimated Resolving compatibility issues with microscope and data logging software on Windows 7 - 4hr Unpacking laptops and setting up in trolleys – including admin time, for example for security marking and recording in asset register – 8hr per suite Preparing one laptop to provide image – 12hr Ensuring printer compatibility with new setup - 4hr Setting up and testing image – 4hr Deploying image – 4hr (largely unattended) Training teachers in use of laptops, Windows 7, Office 2010 – training material and training sessions – 8hr Additional support for teachers in use of new laptops, Windows 7, Office 2010 – 8hr (spread over multiple weeks) Removing existing ICT Suite, disposing of or storing machines - 8hr Preparing image for current suite machines for use in pre-school – 6hr Setting up and testing image - 2hr 15% Contingency time
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