CC4 how hard to remove?

[goldy77]

Has anyone got any experience of remove CC4 from the network?

 

We've had an upgrade of cc3 to cc4 which has left lots of AD issues, and the network is v slow and problematic. We are very confident with AD and have Microsoft certified technicians and have decided to move away from CC4 and manage the network purely with Microsoft resources. Can anyone identify functionality we would lose or problems we may come across?

 

many thanks for any advice...

[SYNACK]

Do you have a nuclear bomb... if so, easy to remove otherwise you will be reimaging every machine.

 

Missing features, printer job logging and control (replace with papercut), software deployment (WSUS and MSI repackaging through GPO), Central imaging (MDT on top of WDS). Remote user assistance (Built in remote assistance). Antivirus, replace with your choice of AV. Remote access, replace with ISA/TMG or Smoothwall (internet filtering), Remote Apps or VPNs for remote access. DirectAccess if you have a couple of external IPs which is even better (laptops connected all the time from anywhere).

 

There is probably other stuff too but I can't think of it.

[goldy77]

Thanks for your reply Synack

 

We either dont use some of those features or have other software in place ready to take over. A lot of the desktop clients need replacing, unfortunately we dont have a magic wand / budget / nuclear bomb... But may create new OU's for computer accounts and when we add new computers replicate the control we get from CC4 with new GPO's, would you imagine this to be achievable or just a complete nightmare to have co-existence for 1-2 years...?

[SYNACK]

Not sure as I have not dealt with it myself, just going off the experiences posted here by others. I beleive it is possible but a bit of a nightmare as RM worms its way through everything. You may be better setting up a seporate domain and a trust between the two so that you can put your fresh clients on a fresh domain away from the custom stuff that RM does. You can get very good control via GPO. All the systems I deal with a native Windows and GPO based.

[the_quick]

I have moved all from CC3 to Vanilla Windows environment. My best advice would be don't do it on same domain, start with new one and create trust, migrate dns and dhcp to new domain - domain setup + dns + dhcp +exchange can be done under a week- imaging computers depends on numbers. We have WDS and it works really well. With windows 2008 I think it is easier. I think most you could miss is a RMMC, now I use excel spreadsheet from wisesoft to create bulk users. For printer management, we use build in features in windows 2008 and scripts - like many others around here.

Software deployment through gpo and msi packages, to build mis packages I use appdeploy and it works really well.

Network works much faster now and I feel more in control and it saves me around 5k a year (support contract), only thing we got left from RM is smartcache.

But I would not do the move other time than summer hols - testing and re imaging all computers takes lots of time and than tweaking to your needs. New volume licensing agreement for schools can make lots of saving in comparison to previous model.

[ricki]

I agree this is a large move.

 

I would buy a new server and build your new domain. You could use vlans to keep the old and new apart if you want to do the server side in term time. Set up all your new domain and policies. Now create a windows machine and join it to the new server vlan and test it to death with some sample users.

 

Once you have all the server side done you can do the majority of the work over the summer holiday .

 

You could use trusts between the network to allow the upgrade live but this would have to be planed very carefull so that users could log onto either domain and get access to both domains.

 

The other option is to find out why the old domain is running slow. My guess is that policies or scripts are looking for something that no longer is accessible. This might be flooding the network with traffic and arps and log on times would become long.

 

Try using capsa to see whats happenings and check the eventlogs and try turning on verbose logging on a computer and have a see where all the delays are.

 

Good luck with the problem.

 

Richard

[Michael]

I'd have to agree with others, setup a new domain and start again. If CC4 is anything like CC3, there are lots of modifications to the registry and the registry is a busy place!

 

You've stated yourself CC4 is problematic and the only guaranteed way is to re-image all workstations and start with a new server installation. This is going to be quicker than manually removing CC4 components from the server and every workstation.

 

If you have MCPs working at your site, they should be more than capable of setting up a new domain. 2008 R2 and Windows 7 are the flavour of the moment

[Michael]

The other option is to find out why the old domain is running slow.

 

The point is though - migrating to a new CC4 install, chances are they have a support agreement. If RM are unable to resolve the issues then it kind of leaves the people to run the network in a sticky situation. I am sympathetic to technicians put in this situation as it can be frustrating (talking from experience).

 

I've setup/upgraded many vanilla domains over the years using standard Microsoft tools and have probably saved schools a fortune in the process.

[goldy77]

Wow, some great feedback. Thanks very much everyone. I think I'm going to add a new domain in a seperate trusted forest and slowly migrate with lots of planning and testing....!

 

Thanks again all!

[ictcphs]

We had a completely new CC4 network install Last December. We had serious problems with botched installs. After 10 months it now works as it should.

I would just like to say we were told not to add any trust relationships whatsoever to CC4 as it will break it. Then again it sounds like it's allready broke.

[SYNACK]

We had a completely new CC4 network install Last December. We had serious problems with botched installs. After 10 months it now works as it should.

I would just like to say we were told not to add any trust relationships whatsoever to CC4 as it will break it. Then again it sounds like it's allready broke.

 

Sounds convenient, 'How do we escape', 'You, umm, umm, can't it might break it'.

[Michael]

That's interesting - I can't think why, unless RM have gone as far as to update the schema or something along these lines.

[SYNACK]

That's interesting - I can't think why, unless RM have gone as far as to update the schema or something along these lines.

 

They would need to modify the base components of the schema itself, I am reasonably sure that if you use the right kind of trust it should not matter if there are extra schema elements so long as the base ones are common.

[Michael]

I totally agree with you, but we're talking about RM here They modify the registry heavily and a lot of the time this is why custom RM MSI packages are required.

 

It'll either be a schema related issue or "a you can't otherwise it'll break and you must stick with us issue" (as you said).

 

Either way, you could still create a new domain, re-create users and transfer user data. It's a big job, but rewarding when it works great! 10 months is a long time to get fundamental basics of a network right.

[DEvans]

I totally agree with you, but we're talking about RM here They modify the registry heavily and a lot of the time this is why custom RM MSI packages are required.

 

RM do love to modify. Why on earth they looked at the volume control in XP and thought to themselves, hmm I like the slider, up and down, it's simple, elegant...... but what we could do is put in tick boxes! So they can choose "quiet", "loud" and "loudest".

 

Yeh thats really.. useful that, can't tell you how empty my life was before that change..

 

Generally with RM networks to Group Policy you can't use the existing domain. You gotta redo it. They are so deep into the registry of all your clients and server(s) it's going to be technical suicide to even try.

 

For the clients, rebuild. You have no choice really.

 

The Server, go with what those who have done this before have said and start a seperate domain and do a intergrated upgrade, gradually shifting machines to the new network.

 

Our team would take the school data from the server and then wipe it entirely and rebuild, just to be sure. Can get a quick network running in a couple days. Depends on how well you know Windows Server and it's features, also depends on the size of your school of course.

[goldy77]

Thanks for all the feedback. Were going to build an independent AD and kiss goodbye to RM for ever. Kicking off next month. Fingers crossed...

[Jaymate]

Thanks for all the feedback. Were going to build an independent AD and kiss goodbye to RM for ever. Kicking off next month. Fingers crossed...

 

Were just about to do the same!

 

Been with RM for many years but now looking at having laptops for all staff and they take so long to log on over wifi with all the RM stuff that it's just not gonna work. Having laptops is headache enough - let alone the pain of CC4 on top.

 

Going for SCCM 2012 if released soon or SCCM 2007 - setting up new domain from now alongside CC4 and going live September!

 

Good times - just need to remember my old IT knowledge now rather than the ease of the RMMC

[m25man]

Tip: Create a brand new Domain Admin Level Account (not called administrator) in both the old/new domains using the same username/password.

Use this account to establish trusts and manage tasks and transfer data during the transition.

The matching credentials save a lot of time when you find yourself on the wrong domain or pc whilst trying to make endless changes.