BT ordered to block pirate links

[Gatt]

OK PC games (Pre PS1/XBOX so talking about win98 & first few years of XP here) avg £10-£15 with many under £15

Now, PC games are up in the £30 (if you can find them crammed into a corner somewhere in amongst the PS/XBox/Wii games!))

 

A Game for the PS3 or Xbox costs anywhere from £40-£50, yet the same game for the Wii or PC is about £20-£30 - How does that work?

 

This affects more than just one industry, and Games are freely copied, Consoles chipped, NOCD cracks for the PC

 

Trainers - walk into "Wyndsors" and you can get a damned good pair for £10-£20 - walk over the the "Nike" / "Addidas" / etc racks and its anywhere from £50 to £100+!!

Essentially you are paying for a name! And I have found that the pair from wyndsors lasts longer than the brand names!

 

The rest is down to Rip-Off Britain....

[simpsonj]

But games have never been cheap. SNES games used to sell for £30-40...

 

Wii games are usually cheaper because of the limited nature of the console, the same game on the Wii and 360 will look awful on the Wii, which also won't be able to have DLC or have Xbox Live to back it up. Most PC games tend to be cheaper (though I have noticed a subtle raising in prices, mainly by EA) because the PC systems tend to be so much more expensive, and more often than not you're paying to mass beta test the product before the first patch comes out... Another strong reason for pirating I guess. But I've never known new PC games to be under the £25 mark the past 10 years.

 

Mind you, if you think Britain is bad for games, try being Australian! Getting expensive to be a gamer over there so I understand.

 

Really liked the coupon idea though, using the cinema experience as a direct sale for the Blu-Ray/Movie/Download sounds like a very good idea.

[Michael]

It's quite simple really why music, games and movies are pirated and it all comes down to price. The price to go to the cinema is expensive (when you include a drink and some popcorn, although I could live without these ) and the price of a new Blu-ray is £15-£20. It just isn't realistic.

 

Clearly the people in the movie business do not understand how the internet or torrents work and whoever is consulting them should be binned immediately. I heard on the radio the other day that the merchandise from the film 'Cars' has generated over $5 billion US, so in theory they could of made the film at the cinema and the DVDs free, as it obviously didn't cost $5 billion US to make the film Cars.

 

Admittedly not every film created is a cash cow for merchandise, but realistically the only way forward is to seriously reduce prices. It's better to sell more at a lower price, rather than fewer at a higher price. You'll always make more money the first way.

 

By the time the movie industry takes every ISP to court (in the world) and allocates a ridiculous budget to try and 'combat' piracy; this is why they're losing money. Then these websites will register a new web address and create clones or mirrors of other torrent sites. Will they take all the ISPs to court again? Who knows, but I wish them luck as they're going to lose longterm.

[sted]

By the time the movie industry takes every ISP to court (in the world) and allocates a ridiculous budget to try and 'combat' piracy; this is why they're losing money. Then these websites will register a new web address and create clones or mirrors of other torrent sites. Will they take all the ISPs to court again? Who knows, but I wish them luck as they're going to lose longterm.

not to mention so much ill will people wont wont to buy from them

[Michael]

not to mention so much ill will people wont wont to buy from them

 

Well yes there is that, plus people are not daft. Everyone in their mind have a monetary worth or value for 'items' in life they wish to buy, from large purchases such as houses or cars to smaller purchases such as DVDs. £20 is too much for a single film (in my opinion) and this is why piracy is rocketing.

 

I'm not entirely sure why just the one torrent site is being targeted as there are thousands of torrent sites out there. It just isn't logical thinking, unless they're that naive the world piracy HQ is all being done from one website. I really hope someone one day from the movie industry wakes up and reads these forums!

[localzuk]

I'm not entirely sure why just the one torrent site is being targeted as there are thousands of torrent sites out there. It just isn't logical thinking, unless they're that naive the world piracy HQ is all being done from one website. I really hope someone one day from the movie industry wakes up and reads these forums!

 

It isn't a torrent site - its a usenet index site, so it is decentralised and easy to block. Also, it is a test case really, and now they have their victory there will be more such cases and more sites being blocked, but like a hydra, more will appear (much like the way the US and UK governments are attempting to fight terrorism too it seems).

 

And I wouln't hold my breath over the last part - the movie industry is controlled by people sitting in offices shouting orders at the people below. Those people below don't want to rock the boat, otherwise they'll be thrown overboard. Just look how long it took for a service like Spotify to appear! Companies have been trying to get such services off the ground for more than a decade, but due to a fundamental lack of understanding by the record companies, they were always impossible to create due to the massive fees demanded for each song played. It is only very recently that they have managed to get licenses that allow them to exist, and that was basically because one of the record companies bought the company!!

[Rawns]

£10 it pops up under a different name in a couple of weeks time.

 

Look at The Pirate Bay. How many times have they been raided, taken to court, jailed etc and their skull & crossbones are still flying.

[Michael]

It isn't a torrent site - its a usenet index site, so it is decentralised and easy to block.

 

Well you could argue then that it's a torrent search engine if you like, but as soon as you block one URL you can create another and create a clone/mirror site many times. It will be an experiment with zero results. As you say, there's a fundamental mis-understanding how it all works and I think a combination of reducing prices and targetting the site owners (not ISPs) is how it should be done.

[tommej]

It isn't a torrent site - its a usenet index site, so it is decentralised and easy to block. Also, it is a test case really, and now they have their victory there will be more such cases and more sites being blocked, but like a hydra, more will appear (much like the way the US and UK governments are attempting to fight terrorism too it seems).

 

And I wouln't hold my breath over the last part - the movie industry is controlled by people sitting in offices shouting orders at the people below. Those people below don't want to rock the boat, otherwise they'll be thrown overboard. Just look how long it took for a service like Spotify to appear! Companies have been trying to get such services off the ground for more than a decade, but due to a fundamental lack of understanding by the record companies, they were always impossible to create due to the massive fees demanded for each song played. It is only very recently that they have managed to get licenses that allow them to exist, and that was basically because one of the record companies bought the company!!

 

You mention spotify but BBC News - Spotify sued over music streaming technology

[localzuk]

You mention spotify but BBC News - Spotify sued over music streaming technology

 

Ah, yeah, I was reading about that - that is the USA for you though. Any possible success ends up in court, as it will be infringing on someone's patent somewhere. The patent in question here is potentially flawed anyway, as it is pretty broad and obvious. I'd be pretty shocked if they didn't push for that patent to be scrubbed due to its broad definition.

 

ie. the patent describes what any person with any inkling of computing knowledge would do to build a centralised music service. Substitute 'film' and it would describe a film streaming service... Not to mention, prior art pretty much already existed, as I believe BT was working on something very similar around the time the patent was issued.

[jamesfed]

My two thoughts are-

 

As with many things today education is the key - if people are taught that stealing is wrong (and movie piracy in all senses is stealing) then they won't steal (at least in an ideal world!).

 

and......

 

Yesterday I bought a pizza online from Dominos, it was simple and painless just dump in PayPal details and boom 15mins later the Pizza turned up - people like me want things to be simple and easy, going onto Amazon buying a DVD and waiting for it to turn up is one big pain and it takes time. Even most (legal) movie streaming services that I have used seem to want to know everything and anything about you before they even let you touch a film and even then you can't download it for use on any device you want as many times as you want.

 

So my real point is....Movie world take after Dominos and make things simple and easy to buy!

[localzuk]

As with many things today education is the key - if people are taught that stealing is wrong (and movie piracy in all senses is stealing) then they won't steal (at least in an ideal world!).

 

To steal (verb) - Take (another person's property) without permission or legal right and without intending to return it.

 

A digital file is a copy, not depriving the original of their own copy - it is therefore NOT theft. It is copyright infringement.

[MK-2]

To steal (verb) - Take (another person's property) without permission or legal right and without intending to return it.

 

A digital file is a copy, not depriving the original of their own copy - it is therefore NOT theft. It is copyright infringement.

 

so what you're saying is Indiana Jones didn't "steal" the artifact, he merely infringed it's copyright by leaving the bag of sand

[Rawns]

so what you're saying is Indiana Jones didn't "steal" the artifact, he merely infringed it's copyright by leaving the bag of sand

 

Everyone knows that he was not stealing it! It's a historical artefact and belongs in a museum!!!!!

[jamesfed]

To steal (verb) - Take (another person's property) without permission or legal right and without intending to return it.

 

A digital file is a copy, not depriving the original of their own copy - it is therefore NOT theft. It is copyright infringement.

 

Just using simple terms

 

and I guess if you want to look at it like that you did steal (maybe duplicate is a better word) it because the 0s and 1s that were once on the servers hard drive are now on the person who downloaded the file.

This way just because something is digital it dosn't mean there something physical (to steal) somewhere along the line.

[MK-2]

Just using simple terms

 

and I guess if you want to look at it like that you did steal (maybe duplicate is a better word) it because the 0s and 1s that were once on the servers hard drive are now on the person who downloaded the file.

This way just because something is digital it dosn't mean there something physical (to steal) somewhere along the line.

 

I think I agree more with localzuk on this. If your car is stolen, you no longer look out your window and see your car, it's gone, it is now in the possession of someone else. But if somebody came round and copied your car, then your car is still there, but there is now another copy of it (with same number plates) elsewhere. You are inconvenienced but not at a loss.

Much in the same sense of the term ID theft. It's not technically theft as people won't now look at you and think "wow, he's gone, i don't know who this person is" it's more ID cloning or ID fraud.

[localzuk]

Just using simple terms

 

and I guess if you want to look at it like that you did steal (maybe duplicate is a better word) it because the 0s and 1s that were once on the servers hard drive are now on the person who downloaded the file.

This way just because something is digital it dosn't mean there something physical (to steal) somewhere along the line.

 

No, still wrong... If I go out and see someone waving their arm around and I duplicate that behaviour precisely, I have not suddenly stolen their arm waving. The 0s and 1s you talk of are still on the server exactly where they were before, except now there are 2 sets of them.

 

Its even difficult to say how much piracy actually loses the music/movie industry, as they use the overly simplistic method of '1 download = 1 lost sale', which is preposterous as every person you'll ever talk to who has pirated something will say that they wouldn't pay for it anyway, so no sale was lost.

Edited July 29, 2011 by localzuk

[chrisredfield93]

dont get me wrong there always good and bad against site blocking by ISP, but things that should no question be defiante is the sites that sell or propmoste stuff that really wrong like child p0rn it makes me sick when you got people out there like that, it needs to be stopped and i think ISPs should block stuff like that without a doubt or even deny any form of access to it, the hosting companies should look into what they hosting too since it effects their image too but ones that host it themsleves should be arrested.

 

That my opuion on blocking for things like gambling or adult themed websites etc then it up to the home owner to block or not but there should a url block list provided in the router and category url submisson on the routers / modem routers by standard and should support wildcars so it makes it easier for everyone.

 

i have also noticed when things do get blocked, eventually the sites goes down and dont renew but the website blockers companys dont take this off their list unless it been asked to be looked into.

 

that my opuion sorry for slight off topic

[jamesfed]

No, still wrong... If I go out and see someone waving their arm around and I duplicate that behaviour precisely, I have not suddenly stolen their arm waving. The 0s and 1s you talk of are still on the server exactly where they were before, except now their are 2 sets of them.

 

To be totaly honist this is wayyy outa what I was thinking when I used the word steal

Just using simple terms in referance to my education point - after all would you rather want to try and explain to a 5 year old what Copyright Infringement is or what stealing is?

[localzuk]

To be totaly honist this is wayyy outa what I was thinking when I used the word steal

Just using simple terms in referance to my education point - after all would you rather want to try and explain to a 5 year old what Copyright Infringement is or what stealing is?

 

That's where our education system falls down - we treat children like idiot and try to dupe them into believing things that aren't true instead of actually explaining things to them properly.

[jamesfed]

That's where our education system falls down - we treat children like idiot and try to dupe them into believing things that aren't true instead of actually explaining things to them properly.

 

Next stop explaining how a nuclear reactor works (sorry thats a little OTT but had to be said!).

 

You are certainly correct there though - either way I'd want to opt for the simple option first give it a few years and then say - 'This is copyright infringement, its a little like stealing but a bit different'.

[SYNACK]

Next stop explaining how a nuclear reactor works (sorry thats a little OTT but had to be said!).

 

You say that like it is hard to explain, you don't need to go into the whole thing eairly on, just the important stuff. Put a certain amount of a special nuclear metal together and it makes heat. That heat boils water, the steam spins a wheel that turns a generator and makes electricity. All factual and not to hard to explain to a child.

[jamesfed]

You say that like it is hard to explain, you don't need to go into the whole thing eairly on, just the important stuff. Put a certain amount of a special nuclear metal together and it makes heat. That heat boils water, the steam spins a wheel that turns a generator and makes electricity. All factual and not to hard to explain to a child.

 

Semi proving my point - you have to start simple first.

[jinnantonnixx]

You mention spotify but BBC News - Spotify sued over music streaming technology

 

Here's the patent. It's a history lesson, fluff, guff and bulsh.

Device for the distribution of music ... - Google Patents

 

Techdirt covers it here: That Didn't Take Long: Spotify Sued For Patent Infringement Just Weeks After Entering US Market | Techdirt

 

Is it any wonder why app developers are pulling out the US?

App developers withdraw from US as patent fears reach 'tipping point' | Technology | guardian.co.uk

[localzuk]

Semi proving my point - you have to start simple first.

 

Yes, but you aren't lying by saying that magic happens... or similar. Which is what you're doing when you say copyright infringement is theft. Simplification doesn't mean lying.