LiamH Posted June 10, 2011 Posted June 10, 2011 Whats everyones views on the current push for Scottish independence? Pros? Cons? Having a conversation on another forum, and wondered how everyone here felt about it. Ill start it off with this.. How much of the financial burden would Scotland take with the UK deficit? since the RBS was one of the biggest banks in the UK to collapse.
X-13 Posted June 10, 2011 Posted June 10, 2011 Inb4: Scotland gets independance and England give them financial aid.
LiamH Posted June 10, 2011 Author Posted June 10, 2011 I would really like to think our government would... man up and not give them financial aid if they want Independence. Especially when we are struggling ourselves, like that would ever happen though.
penfold_99 Posted June 10, 2011 Posted June 10, 2011 The main issue would be over finance as the oil fields in the north sea would need to be handed over to scotland but the uk would stop is £3bn+ subsidy of the Scottish economy. I think the oildfield only generate about £2bn a year.
LosOjos Posted June 10, 2011 Posted June 10, 2011 The main issue would be over finance as the oil fields in the north sea would need to be handed over to scotland but the uk would stop is £3bn+ subsidy of the Scottish economy. I think the oildfield only generate about £2bn a year. Although that's not going to last much longer, the SNP (who obviously have reason to over-estimate the time frame) say 40 years [source: http://www.snp.org/node/13905], although they're saying it as though that's a great thing - what will they do when it runs out? 40 years is not a long time in the grand scheme of things.
Jiser Posted June 10, 2011 Posted June 10, 2011 Welsh, NI, Scotland, Ireland, Europe - as far as I am concerned were giving to much money and subsidies to all of them. Free education to the scottish? Whats all that about as well.. Indepedence aload of BS. A load of hardliners who can't get over something over 100 years ago. If they want it that bad give them back their hills and rubbish weather...while at it the Welsh and NI as well and stop all the money were giving them as well. GG! There was that thing about money given to Pakistan as well. How about sorting our own country out first, instead of charging 1.35 a litre at the pumps and 20% VAT. 1
TechMonkey Posted June 10, 2011 Posted June 10, 2011 I doubt it will happen, they will just ask for more and more independent powers. As for the Pakistan aid, that is a political move. If you can boost education in the country you can hopefully boost the economy & led to extremist groups (who prey on the poor, uneducated & disenfranchised) dying out or at least finding it harder to survive. It also boosts our standing in the country, can lead to international trade & can help links & good will. Depends on what price you put on that.
LosOjos Posted June 10, 2011 Posted June 10, 2011 I doubt it will happen, they will just ask for more and more independent powers. As for the Pakistan aid, that is a political move. If you can boost education in the country you can hopefully boost the economy & led to extremist groups (who prey on the poor, uneducated & disenfranchised) dying out or at least finding it harder to survive. It also boosts our standing in the country, can lead to international trade & can help links & good will. Depends on what price you put on that. Only for a lot of the good will earned to be undone by our alliance with the US after they performed illegal military action to kill Osama Bin Laden in their country, citing the Pakistani's potential links with the Taliban as justification nice one America! [not that I think they should have let Osama get away, but they should have informed the Pakistani government what they were about to do!]
CAM Posted June 10, 2011 Posted June 10, 2011 Trouble with independence is Scotland and our royalfamily are too closely linked. Prisons, Her Majesty's Pleasure anyone? Army, it's ours and not Scottish. Who will protect Scotland? Borders, have fun protecting them with no Navy and having to set one up on our border. Oh and the road network needs to be run. What about Scottish sports teams kicked out of English leagues (sports other then football!).
LosOjos Posted June 10, 2011 Posted June 10, 2011 Army, it's ours and not Scottish. Who will protect Scotland? Anybody else thinking we have an ideal solution here? Give them full independence, then immediately invade and take full control
LiamH Posted June 10, 2011 Author Posted June 10, 2011 Anybody else thinking we have an ideal solution here? Give them full independence, then immediately invade and take full control I did raise that point on another forum "oh so you have the oil fields? and which navy will you send to protect them if we decide they are ours" As for the prescriptions / University fees, we really need an English parliament for that, the government looks after the UK, and the Scottish, welsh and northern Ireland parliaments look after themselves, we don't have anyone to fight for us. The Campaign for an English Parliament 1
jdoyle Posted June 10, 2011 Posted June 10, 2011 independence for Wales and Scotland is long overdue. The 6 counties will be part of a 32county republic very, very soon. When Liz II pops off, time to review monarchy - Ponce Charles as king of England????? Hope not. Good time to dissolve the Union.
LiamH Posted June 10, 2011 Author Posted June 10, 2011 independence for Wales and Scotland is long overdue. The 6 counties will be part of a 32county republic very, very soon. When Liz II pops off, time to review monarchy - Ponce Charles as king of England????? Hope not. Good time to dissolve the Union. Would rather be the 51st state of america then be lumped with Europe personally
localzuk Posted June 10, 2011 Posted June 10, 2011 independence for Wales and Scotland is long overdue. The 6 counties will be part of a 32county republic very, very soon. When Liz II pops off, time to review monarchy - Ponce Charles as king of England????? Hope not. Good time to dissolve the Union. We should skip Charles and move to William instead. But we should stick with a monarchy IMO. Why do these countries need independence? Just seems like an idea based on misconceptions and ridiculous arguments to me.
AyatollahPies Posted June 10, 2011 Posted June 10, 2011 I did raise that point on another forum "oh so you have the oil fields? and which navy will you send to protect them if we decide they are ours" As for the prescriptions / University fees, we really need an English parliament for that, the government looks after the UK, and the Scottish, welsh and northern Ireland parliaments look after themselves, we don't have anyone to fight for us. The Campaign for an English Parliament Considering a large amount of serving personnel in the armed forces are from the other home nations, and considering that they've got a great big Nuclear submarine base up their, I don't think they'd have any trouble at all defending it from "us".
MK-2 Posted June 10, 2011 Posted June 10, 2011 Considering a large amount of serving personnel in the armed forces are from the other home nations, and considering that they've got a great big Nuclear submarine base up their, I don't think they'd have any trouble at all defending it from "us". lets be fair, the way the whole country is at the moment, an ant hill could probably invade us and have a fair chance of success!
localzuk Posted June 10, 2011 Posted June 10, 2011 It'd likely end up being a shared military, or they'd become a protectorate or similar (kinda like the Isle of Man).
LiamH Posted June 10, 2011 Author Posted June 10, 2011 Considering a large amount of serving personnel in the armed forces are from the other home nations, and considering that they've got a great big Nuclear submarine base up their, I don't think they'd have any trouble at all defending it from "us". Unless those personnel are extremely good at tossing missiles they don't have from dry land (maybe thats why they do timber tossing in the highlands!) i don't think we have much of a problem. Unless you think its going to be a hostile split where they try half inch the British army/navy equipment. Don't get me wrong, i hope the Scottish stay apart of the UK because i think its mutually beneficent and have have no issue with the Scots, i was meant to be a bit of lighthearted humor.
ZeroHour Posted June 10, 2011 Posted June 10, 2011 Sadly we are not in anywhere as nice a position as the first vote for independence. How black gold was hijacked: North sea oil and the betrayal of Scotland - This Britain, UK - The Independent is a worthwhile read, there is a reason the Tories get nowhere in scotlands votes. The thing that depresses me is when I speak to my Norwegian friends who have a government with buckets of cash and a similar population to us. The tax increase for oil is going to be a big problem in Scotland for jobs, they increased the tax from 20% to 32% to raise and extra £2b which means roughly the gov must get £4b of direct tax and that excludes other parts so its certainly going to be more then £3b.
Gatt Posted June 10, 2011 Posted June 10, 2011 @ZeroHour: Typical English - Start something but cant finish it.. My 2cents.. I personally think Independence will be a bad move for Scotland... I think a bit more devolved power at most, a bit less of the ties to the UK, but not full blown Independence as I do not feel we can realistically support ourselves as a nation ( Financially, logistically, Defencively..) I think the SNP may be in for a surprise when the referendum (Which, despite being a Scot, I will not be able to have a say in!) happens..
featured_spectre Posted June 10, 2011 Posted June 10, 2011 A country need only fail on one of the eight criteria to not meet the definition of independent country status. Scotland does not meet all eight criteria; it fails on six of the eight criteria... Has space or territory that has internationally recognized boundaries (boundary disputes are OK). Yes, Scotland does have internationally recognized boundaries. Scotland is 78,133 square kilometers in area. Has people who live there on an ongoing basis. Yes, according to the 2001 census, Scotland's population is 5,062,011. Has economic activity and an organized economy. A country regulates foreign and domestic trade and issues money. Somewhat. Scotland certainly has economic activity and an organized economy; Scotland even has its own GDP (over 62 billion pounds as of 1998). However, Scotland does not regulate foreign or domestic trade, the Scottish Parliament is not authorized to do so. Under the terms of the Scotland Act 1998, the Scottish Parliament is able to pass laws on a range of issues known as "devolved issues." The United Kingdom Parliament is able to act on "reserved issues." Reserved issues include a variety of economic issues: fiscal, economic and monetary system; energy; common markets; and trade and industry. The Bank of Scotland does issue money but it prints the British pound on behalf of the central government. Has the power of social engineering, such as education. Somewhat. The Scottish Parliament is able to control education, training, and social work (but not social security). However, this power was granted to Scotland by the UK Parliament. Has a transportation system for moving goods and people. Somewhat. Scotland itself has a transportation system but the system is not fully under Scottish control. The Scottish Parliament controls some aspects of transportation, including the Scottish road network, bus policy and ports and harbors while the UK Parliament controls railways, transport safety and regulation. Again, Scotland's power was granted by the UK Parliament. Has a government that provides public services and police power. Somewhat. The Scottish Parliament has the ability to control law and home affairs (including most aspects of criminal and civil law, the prosecution system and the courts) as well as the police and fire services. The UK Parliament controls defense and national security across the United Kingdom. Again, Scotland's power was granted to Scotland by the UK Parliament. Has sovereignty. No other State should have power over the country's territory. No. The United Kingdom Parliament definitely has power over Scotland's territory. Has external recognition. A country has been "voted into the club" by other countries. No. Scotland does not have external recognition nor does Scotland have its own embassies in other independent countries. Because of this, Scotland (nor Wales, nor Northern Ireland, nor England itself) is not an independent country nor is it a State. However, Scotland is most certainly a nation of people living in an internal division of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
Gatt Posted June 10, 2011 Posted June 10, 2011 Hmmm.. so the Englsh "invade and conquer" the Scots disquising it as the Act Of Union (1707) Then in 2007 they kindly give us some powers back, but not all of it and stil keep us under the thumb Think that about sums it up
Jiser Posted June 10, 2011 Posted June 10, 2011 Hmmm.. so the Englsh "invade and conquer" the Scots disquising it as the Act Of Union (1707) Then in 2007 they kindly give us some powers back, but not all of it and stil keep us under the thumb Think that about sums it up Scots need to get over something several hundred years old. They needed to be tamed and we tamed them ; )
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now