Future of ICT provision/support in schools

[KWestos]

What is everybody's thought's on the future on ICT within schools over the next 5-10 years. Now that BSF is dead and the amalgamation of schools ICT function is no longer being amalgamated, what do people think.

 

Personally I still think this will happen as budgets are reduced and rationalisation creeps in. Local councils are streamlining their ICT provision, so I guess it could only be time before schools realise the benefits, albeit financial ones. It's feasible as schools primarily do the same thing across the board with incredibly similar software, etc.

 

What's peoples opinion on this?

[andydis]

I can see this going a few ways, in my opinion I can see the complete ICT budgets of all schools within an LA being "top sliced" from the LA,

 

Onsite engineers would become part of a bigger LA ICT Support "umbrella", sharing resources between one another, better comms between schools.

 

Then again I can see 90% of schools becoming academys becuase of financial pressure and not having a need for a LA's. Who knows

[simpsonj]

Surely depends on the LEA? Ours is slowly giving more and more control back to the schools, whilst maintaining its support. For example, schools will be expected to start buying in their own broadband next year, which has always been provided by the county council since I've been here. I think the cutting of Harnessing Technology, and the lack of replacement, has effectively cut the LEA funding for expanding ICT services, or at least, it has around here, in my opinion.

 

It could well be that partnerships of schools might be the way forward, schools pooling together their resources, which might mean that a secondary schools ICT support staff help out the primary school instead of a private firm. Or the reverse of course...

[GrumbleDook]

The idea of LAs taking more control is exceedingly unlikely without agreement of a large number of schools (who are happy to sign on the dotted line for several years for the service!)

 

With more schools becoming academies you will find that they will suddenly find that some of the extra money they have now (or shortly) will not be there in the future and the costs of services they pick up from places other than the LA (and even those from the LA) are likely to go up in cost and/or come down in quality ... so they will start banding together ... and forming partnerships.

 

Those in Academy groups already are examples of where you can still get economies of scale ... so instead of the LA being the central group for education and services, Academy groups or commercial partners running Academies will take on that roll instead. This may or may not be on a profit making basis in the future.

[KWestos]

I was possibly thinking along the lines of one Network Manager/Director to help the schools (reduce the overlap) with all their development plans, project planning, etc etc. And each school has their technicians to support and run the networks. I would hazard a guess that most schools run 80%+ Windows and office (which accounts for most of their needs). As long as each school has decent support with Technicians (senior and low level) reductions could be made. There could be a floating ICT co-ordinator to a group of schools say???

[maniac]

I could see more and more schools combining together to share technical and other support staff like Grounds people, maintenance people etc. to make it more affordable.

[Gibbo]

There needs to be some collaboration. For years we've been asking our LEA to take the lead in getting us bulk discounts for stuff but nothing has ever come of it. We've had more success arranging things ourselves between network managers of the 15 secondary schools in the borough.

[KWestos]

We've had more success arranging things ourselves between network managers of the 15 secondary schools in the borough.

 

That's exactly what I'm talking about. If these 15 schools had ONE Director and ONE Network manager between them (for example). And all the schools had their dedicated Technicians to manage their network, etc, economies could be met. Whether this would be centrally hosted is another issue. But the people needed for these 15 schools could be cut possibly as the knowledge needed in each school is replicated 15 times in a short geographical area. Which in reality could be managed more effectively

[GrumbleDook]

The problem with the idea of getting discounts on bulk purchases ... there has been some serious issues with limit of purchases before going out to tender and then to EU procurement. You can find that should an Academy group or LA try this, then the legal and procurement costs are more than the discount they get.

 

The best that you can manage it to help arrange competitive negotiations without excluding any particular supplier ... and even then you are skirting what you can and can't do.

 

The best way I've seen is the word of mouth pressure that some schools can put on suppliers to ensure best prices, and the schools *will* compare prices to make sure they are getting the same deals as others are.

 

Regular meetings of schools and companies which support schools is a good thing, and these need to be taken on by the groups of schools where they can (and yes, I do work for an LA!)

 

If there is anyone who runs such a group could you DM me your details as there is some work going on to try and get resources and ideas shared between those running such groups, over and above anything happening on EG or other areas.

[andydis]

let assume this for one second :-

 

The LA has a datacentre, VDI workstations, virtualized servers, for all schools it governs, its managed, has all software you need, all support included.

It will be top sliced form your ICT budget say £x per user

 

Would you go for it?

[KWestos]

let assume this for one second :-

 

The LA has a datacentre, VDI workstations, virtualized servers, for all schools it governs, its managed, has all software you need, all support included.

It will be top sliced form your ICT budget say £x per user

 

Would you go for it?

 

If it makes economic sense, yes!

[Guest salan]

We are looking at being an academy. To be honest although we are told that this will mean more monney, I see dark times ahead and a lot of heartache.

From what I have heard of others in the academy already, they have basically had what I suspect BSF would do. I.E. rip it all out and you will do it our way.

Thats fine for a school with a poor ICT subsystem, but we have quite a new and good system thanks. So is all my work of the last fours years going to be ripped out? Am I even going to be here?

And what will the academy actually provide?

Why does this sound like a dif version of BSF?

Alan

[TechMonkey]

Yep, I can see it going a few ways depending on external factors.

1) Working in education gets less and less attractive for IT specialists (due to cuts, more demand for less benefits, lack of support, harder to staff departments, etc) so we start backsliding to enthusiastic volunteers or external companies.

2) With schools becoming academies IT fragments and you end up with pockets of excellence, where you have a good lead character & an IT team to back it up, while others struggle and make do either through lack of vision, drive, lead, budget or ideas.

3) Schools band together to form collectives, sharing ideas, buying power maybe sharing IT teams.

4) It all carries on the same

 

I'm hoping with the recent groundswell of support for a return to proper IT courses so the money will be made available to support these and that it will attract more people interested in that side.

Sorry bit more doom and gloom than I would hope.

I guess we will see.

[KWestos]

Why does this sound like a dif version of BSF?

Alan

 

That's because there are HUGE similarities with the provision of ICT. Under BSF programme, each school would have been blessed with a NEW, sparkling ICT provision. Not necessarily better, but new nevertheless. And under the remaining years, there would not be the level of funding in the pot to sustain the incredibly large initial procurement of ICT, both in infrastructure and front end equipment. Needless to say, the remaining years would see this pot of money reduce, year on year. This I guess will (or is) happening to existing Academies. HUGE initial investment, followed by years of under funding to support the ridiculous, unsustainable initial purchases

[TechMonkey]

let assume this for one second :-

 

The LA has a datacentre, VDI workstations, virtualized servers, for all schools it governs, its managed, has all software you need, all support included.

It will be top sliced form your ICT budget say £x per user

 

Would you go for it?

 

If the solution suited the school, & the cost was right we'd consider it. I don't think it would be adopted though. Most schools round here are doing something extra, be it provision of services, extra curricular or just the service they provide. I don't think they would be willing to give that up for an unknown system.

[KWestos]

If the solution suited the school, & the cost was right we'd consider it. I don't think it would be adopted though. Most schools round here are doing something extra, be it provision of services, extra curricular or just the service they provide. I don't think they would be willing to give that up for an unknown system.

 

There's no reason why schools couldn't be individual even with a VDI setup. It's just the infrastructure that would be the same. Each school could have their own look and feel, directory structure, mapping, policies etc. Sharing the infrastructures and associated costs. But the technicians within the school can 'tweak' their own to their own tastes. The bigger picture would be a 'sharing' of the Network Manager/Director, resources etc. The development planning and programme delivery could be performed by a 'floating' body which is shared amongst the schools

[TechMonkey]

But would they have the same autonomy with projects? Can you really see an LA just allowing a school to slap an Apache server on to run some PHP systems or tie in some OSX clusters.

I see better what you mean now, give the schools a blank virtual canvas and let them draw what they will on it, & it sounds great but having seen the issues here with various LA projects where such and such a restriction exists or this is blocked for this concern that I don't think it would be as free as we would like to think. It is a good thought though to save on the large expense of the backend.

[KWestos]

But would they have the same autonomy with projects? Can you really see an LA just allowing a school to slap an Apache server on to run some PHP systems or tie in some OSX clusters.

I see better what you mean now, give the schools a blank virtual canvas and let them draw what they will on it, & it sounds great but having seen the issues here with various LA projects where such and such a restriction exists or this is blocked for this concern that I don't think it would be as free as we would like to think. It is a good thought though to save on the large expense of the backend.

 

If it was all virtualised and each school had their own are which didn't impede any other school, what would be the difference. If you wanted a development area, your technicians could do it on one of their development servers. If problems happen, the school in question would still be in the same boat as they currently would be, having to resolve the issue.

 

If one school had a greater budget than another, great. Do with it what they wanted, more vdi, software, hardware, doesn't matter. The basics will be in place. This idea is more about sharing human resources than a technological viewpoint.

[NikChillin]

With cloud computing that might render most of the things on the network useless. Maybe a floating engineer for hardware problems. Everything else offsite, even managed centrally. I believe the we are a dying breed.

[elsiegee40]

I could see more and more schools combining together to share technical and other support staff like Grounds people, maintenance people etc. to make it more affordable.

 

We are looking at being an academy. To be honest although we are told that this will mean more monney, I see dark times ahead and a lot of heartache.

From what I have heard of others in the academy already, they have basically had what I suspect BSF would do. I.E. rip it all out and you will do it our way.

Thats fine for a school with a poor ICT subsystem, but we have quite a new and good system thanks. So is all my work of the last fours years going to be ripped out? Am I even going to be here?

And what will the academy actually provide?

Why does this sound like a dif version of BSF?

Alan

I too see the way ahead as collaboration. The DfE seems keen for 'new style' outstanding academies to work ever more closely with the schools they support... possibly even taking them under the wing of their academy trusts.

 

With such combined academies coming forward, it gives schools the opportunity to share services and teaching in a larger organisation. I don't see this as a backward step; it gives the opportunity for expansion and staff development/promotion where previously there was none.

 

There won't be loads more money around for the academies, that was always a nonsense, but there is the freedom for academies to do things their way rather than the very precriptive BSF way.

[elsiegee40]

With cloud computing that might render most of the things on the network useless. Maybe a floating engineer for hardware problems. Everything else offsite, even managed centrally. I believe the we are a dying breed.

 

The computers still have to be able to connect to the internet and print and someone will need to understand and manage the central file structure, security, etc of the school's data regardless of where it is stored. As a former mainframe programmer and DBA, I've already been through the "you'll be out of a job scenario" brought on my the invention of PCs. It didn't happen; the job just changed. There'll always be a need for technical staff, but our role wil continue to develop and change and we adapt with it .

[Jiser]

IMO:

 

In the short term things will stay as is. The trend of amalgamation seems to be going full speed with schools merging, heads taking over more than one school, academys etc. I bet they will try to keep their distinct network support teams going, however it makes sense to join IT support teams together. For example IT Director and or NM, Network Engineers acting as a floating body with senior techs / junior techs on site. There is more benefits than disadvantages to this, for example more room for career progression and sharing of knowledge. Schools should be run more as a business! Support teams should link in infant, primary schools in immediate areas (such as feeder schools) and provide IT services for them and this in turn would probably bring in more money.

 

In the long term, using the word 'cloud' loosely, will take over. However in the next 5-10 years some form of techie is always going to be needed to do basic support such as toner changing, basic admin etc.

Edited May 9, 2011 by Jiser

[Guest salan]

This is where I do not see it as a benefit for us. We have a good ICT system (ok there always one or two minor niggles). We have a good support team (althoug again there always someone who wants more!). So how are we going to benefit?

At best we will be spread across more schools (not sure just how we are supposed to find the time as I clock up an obsene number of overtime that I never get around to claiming.) We are 80% of a major server upgrade that I started three years ago (done when funds allow). If all that is to be scrapped just to put what som other person thinks is better.....

We had another section of the authories use part of the school and they got their own bods in to set it up. They didn't ask us at all. Funny thing is it never worked fully. It was always failing. But if they had asked we could of told them what they wanted to do would not work!

Our school is 75 years ol and made of acrington brick. I am not sure a bomb would damage it!

Wireless just does ot work well. There are so many WAPs you can pick up all around the school as well (min 20 at any one point).

I am all for linking in and helping the feeder schools but the infrastructure needs to be in place and one size does NOT fit all.

So far I have not heard anything that gives me a good feeling.

Alan

[john]

I personally expect to see the demise of the LA School IT Support team, from some things I read on here I'd say that's a good thing and others not so. Some LAs, for example mine, has a seperate Corporate and Schools IT Team, I would expect those to merge in the near future to save money as at the end of the day they are doing the same things, supporting IT within the LA so why have two management teams running them? Have two teams under one lead perhaps to save money.

 

Things like Central Managed Services will be farmed off or discontinued, for example the days of the RBC are numbered, Centralised Systems no longer provide the needs of schools for Internet and Filtering, our LA has taken the bold step to discontinue the central proxy farm and give all schools the hardware to do it all and just route raw internet to us, this is a bold step but once setup will reduce the costs, things like that outside of the box thinking will help them survive.

 

In terms of procurement etc, in our county were meeting at the end of the month to discuss bulk buying PCs for the summer holiday, and meeting with a vendor from the CITHS framework to take advice and see if we can work with vendors like HP to arrange county wide discounts ourselves, our LA does sell hardware but many are unhappy with the hardware and pricing so we will try and do it ourselves.

 

Feeder Support, our LA does a lot of that, but again we are looking at taking it in-house ourselves and starting to run that for ourselves with the local schools to save money for them, were all for trying to save what little money we have left in the budgets.

[mthomas08]

We pretty much have complete control over our IT (That goes for us in IT Support too - we are more in control).

 

We should be an Academy come Christmas, our future planning is:

More FROG Usage (this is currently being implemented)

Upgrading our servers to Server 2008 R2 X64

Virtualising more

Look towards possible thin clients for quicker User access.

 

I can see schools given more budgets (even though at the moment they are getting budget cuts). Sooner or later they will realise the money is seriously needed in schools and Especially in IT because it is the students who suffer with down IT Equipment. I can see the schools being given the money and not being forced in to the "BSF" way which was badly done from day 1. It could be possible that schools have to follow guidelines or recommended guidelines. We are remember here for the students, to give them the best possible equipment and not suffer for it while providing up-to-date software of the real world and not just something they will never/rarely see.