Rydra Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 The distance of the quake from the plants is a key factor in this: Japan may experience these quakes on a regular basis, but what was so devastating was it's close proximity to the east coast. It was very close to the surface, it was very powerful, and it was very close to the land. The science behind seismic activities is complex to say the least. Distance and depth have a marked affect on the effects felt. If you looked at the data of earthquake power AS FELT BY THE LOCATION of the power plants, I daresay it would generally withstand the blast; the chances of an earthquake of that magnitude hitting at that exact location is nowhere near as likely, and as already pointed out, they pulled a scotty; they said it will stand up to a 7.9, and it took the beating of an 8.9/9.0 Also to note, the ricter scale increases by a factor of 10 per single point; so a 8.9 is 10 times more powerful than a 7.9, and 100 times more powerful than a 6.9. So when you consider it's taken a beating 10 times more powerful than it was designed for, that's pretty damned good going.
tommej Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 (edited) Actually... 8.9 is just 10 times stronger than 7.9. Logarithmic scale and all that. Not quite. Each step on the moment magnitude scale is 101.5 times the last. So from 7 to 8.9 = 10(1.5 x 1.9) = 102.85 = 707 Edited March 16, 2011 by tommej
localzuk Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 (edited) Actually... 8.9 is just 10 times stronger than 7.9. Logarithmic scale and all that. An 8.0 is the equivalent of around 63.1 PJ of energy (63.1 x 10 to the 15 Joules). A 9.0 is the equivalent of a 2.00 EJ (2 x 10 to the 18 Joules). So, not 10 times stronger... I suppose it depends on what you class as 'times stronger'. To me, 63.1x10 to the 15 Joules is not 10 x less than 2.0x10 to the 18 Joules. Edited March 16, 2011 by localzuk
Rydra Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 Richter magnitude scale - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia The Richter magnitude scale, also known as the local magnitude (ML) scale, assigns a single number to quantify the amount of seismic energy released by an earthquake. It is a base-10 logarithmic scale obtained by calculating the logarithm of the combined horizontal amplitude (shaking amplitude) of the largest displacement from zero on a particular type of seismometer (Wood–Anderson torsion). For example, an earthquake that measures 5.0 on the Richter scale has a shaking amplitude 10 times larger than one that measures 4.0. The effective upper limit of measurement for local magnitude ML is just below 9 for local magnitudes and just below 10 for moment magnitude when applied to large earthquakes.[1]
Gonk Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 The Register's Wednesday Update in the Fukushima Nuclear Power Plant: Fukushima situation as of Wednesday ? The Register
CHR1S Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 A better way to produce electricity from nuclear technology would be to use thorium 228, it only produces a fraction of the waste but the waste only has a half life of 2 year (afaik). Wikki says - 1.9116 years the decays into 224Ra with a half life of 3.64 days. That's assuming that thorium 228 is the material used to create Uranium-232 in the thorium cycle, Uranium-232 has a half life of 69 years. /not a nuuuuclear tech, so this is assumption from a wikki article
tommej Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 Richter magnitude scale - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Since when has wikipedia been a reliable source?
localzuk Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 Since when has wikipedia been a reliable source? Since it is as reliable as the Encyclopaedia Britannica...
aerospacemango Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 Since when has wikipedia been a reliable source? You mean it's not???? OMG! I'm in shock! And I thought WIKI was the font of ALL knowledge!
Rydra Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 Since when has wikipedia been a reliable source? OK then..... How Are Earthquake Magnitudes Measured? The Richter magnitudes are based on a logarithmic scale (base 10). What this means is that for each whole number you go up on the Richter scale, the amplitude of the ground motion recorded by a seismograph goes up ten times. Using this scale, a magnitude 5 earthquake would result in ten times the level of ground shaking as a magnitude 4 earthquake (and 32 times as much energy would be released). The Richter Magnitude Scale On the Richter Scale, magnitude is expressed in whole numbers and decimal fractions. For example, a magnitude 5.3 might be computed for a moderate earthquake, and a strong earthquake might be rated as magnitude 6.3. Because of the logarithmic basis of the scale, each whole number increase in magnitude represents a tenfold increase in measured amplitude; as an estimate of energy, each whole number step in the magnitude scale corresponds to the release of about 31 times more energy than the amount associated with the preceding whole number value. Richter scale (seismology) -- Britannica Online Encyclopedia Each increase of one unit on the scale represents a 10-fold increase in the magnitude of an earthquake—in other words, numbers on the Richter scale are proportional to the common (base 10) logarithms of maximum wave amplitudes. In theory the scale has no upper limit, but in practice no earthquake has ever been registered above magnitude 9.
K.C.Leblanc Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 And I thought WIKI was the font of ALL knowledge! It doesn't even have the words "DON'T PANIC" on the front in big friendly letters.
tommej Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 OK then..... How Are Earthquake Magnitudes Measured? The Richter Magnitude Scale Richter scale (seismology) -- Britannica Online Encyclopedia I stand corrected , was refering to the moment magnitude scale though.
localzuk Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 OK then..... How Are Earthquake Magnitudes Measured? The Richter Magnitude Scale Richter scale (seismology) -- Britannica Online Encyclopedia Ok, so the Richter scale works by amount of ground shaking, whereas I was working with energy involved.
sonofsanta Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 Ok, so the Richter scale works by amount of ground shaking, whereas I was working with energy involved. Damnable Science and its constant need for units and what-have-you to be stated! In all honesty, I only even know about the Richter scale anyway. This may actually be one of those few shining moments where we were both right. In which case, it was me being a pedant so I lose on moral grounds.
localzuk Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 Damnable Science and its constant need for units and what-have-you to be stated! In all honesty, I only even know about the Richter scale anyway. This may actually be one of those few shining moments where we were both right. In which case, it was me being a pedant so I lose on moral grounds. Huzzah! I'm the Charlie Sheen of this conversation - winning! Now where's that tiger blood?
tommej Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 Japan Quake Map Animated map of the earthquakes. Pretty amazing/terrifying.
Theblacksheep Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 Josef Oehmen not MIT nuclear dept but Lean Advancement Initiative (business risk management)
JJonas Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 Not good... NRC: No water in spent fuel pool of Japan plant | WHAS11.com | Louisville News, Breaking News | WHAS11.com | News for Louisville, Kentucky
tommej Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 (edited) Gregory Jaczko did not say Wednesday how the information was obtained, but the NRC and U.S. Department of Energy both have experts on site at the Fukushima Dai-ichi complex of six reactors. He says officials believe radiation levels are extremely high, and that could affect workers' ability to stop temperatures from escalating. Tepco has yet to say anything about this. Radiation levels are high, but it's not stated where, according to Tepco's website the peak radiation at the front gate of the plant today came in lower (10.8 mSv/hr) than the peak radiation yesterday (11.9 mSv/hr), and that peak was pretty brief (<1 hour)...as of the last reading it was down to 1.6 mSv/hr, which doesn't seem consistent with, you know, atomic apocalypse. The radiation in Tokyo remained at the background level all day. Wouldn't worry too much just yet, at least until this is confirmed. Edited March 16, 2011 by tommej
tommej Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 (edited) Radiation at Fukushima Daiichi - Graphic - NYTimes.com Current history of the radiation readings around the reactor, and a non-hysterical context for the levels. And of course the BBC doing its job to help keep the public informed and calm on it's headline right now Increasing alarm is expressed in the US about the crisis at Japan's Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant, with warnings of "potentially lethal" radiation doses there. Edited March 16, 2011 by tommej
tommej Posted March 17, 2011 Posted March 17, 2011 As of 5am GMT. JSDF choppers dumped water on the #3 and 4 buildings, water cannon trucks are being moved into position at the plant, TEPCO hopes to get power hooked back up by this evening. Spent fuel pool water temp in Reactors #5 and 6 has risen, but only by 4 degrees C in one and by about 20C in the other. Those buildings are totally intact, so once power is restored it should become a total non-issue, and even now it ranks very low on the priority list. Steam/smoke has stopped rising from #3 (at least to the extent it was previously) but there has been no new info about water levels. There are 180 people at the site now working on reactor control and debris removal. From everything that has been discussed in press conferences, the issue right now is with the spent fuel pools, not the reactors themselves. Later in the day it was reported that a JSDF chopper crew visually checked the water level in the #4 spent fuel pool and said the level was very high. This means that either the earlier reports of low levels were incorrect or the water dumping worked, which would be nigh-miraculous. Either way, it's fantastic news.
Popular Post Martin Posted March 17, 2011 Popular Post Posted March 17, 2011 This is a fascinating article, from a link in one of El Reg's comments, which hopefully will continue to be updated... The Hiroshima Syndrome - Fukushima Accident mb 5
JJonas Posted March 17, 2011 Posted March 17, 2011 NHK WORLD English Sky now reporting "Water cannon resumes dousing reactor no 3" It had earlier been withdrawn due to high radiation levels.
JJonas Posted March 17, 2011 Posted March 17, 2011 (edited) NHK saying at a point 100m from the plant, radiation levels unchanged due to helicopter water drops. Edited March 17, 2011 by JJonas
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