Need to move from RM CC3 - what should I move to?

[Raja]

Hi guys, We are currently running RM CC3 and wanted to move to eithe cc4 or vanilla, I am even considering out sourcing it to another company to manage our server. We had allot of issues with CC3 and I also heard CC4 has its share of problems. So any recommendation would greatly be appreciated. We are running around 130 clients including laptops.

[edutech4schools]

I went from CC3 to vanilla and would recommend you do the same. It takes out the extra layer of issues and is much easier to find info on the net.

[alextreadwell]

1 plus for vanilla

[enjay]

Considering exactly the same myself. Whilst CC3 was an easy choice, I'm less convinced about the need for CC4 given the array of third-party management interfaces which are out there now.

[irsprint84]

CC3 definetly had its place at the time but Vanilla has enough tools to deal with things

[alan-d]

Vanilla is the way to go if you are considering outsourcing, it will give you a wider range of suppliers to choose from.

[crc-ict]

We have just gone the CC3 to Vanilla route and you need to think carefully about how you are replacing a lot of the things which are standard in CC3 but not included in a standard vanilla install - imaging/build solution, Auditor, SmartCache, print credit management, RM Tutor etc.

 

This wasn't thought about at our place and we are now suffering the consequences.

[enjay]

@crc-ict - Could you list the components you mean. I'm currently drawing up a list of all the RM tools / third-party bolt-ons which we'd lose if we ditched CCx, and just want to check I haven't missed any.

[alan-d]

Many years ago (pre CC3) we ditched RM and replaced it with Ranger which gave us time to adjust to a vanilla setup and still have some of the options offered by RM. The difference was that we were in complete control and could turn off parts until we reached the point where we were a completely vanilla network. We did this over a period of 2-3 years.

[sukh]

Hi

 

Go to Vanilla. More support is avaliable. Depending on your enviornment, you can do it in house with help from a 3rd party.

 

Regards

Sukh

[maark]

I would go vanilla - depending on how much active directory/native microsoft experience you have it may be worth getting a third party in to help setup but you will still save money compared to RM and will be running industry standard stuff so be able to choose from a large variety of support options.

Software I recommend - impero, papercut/pcounter, dovestones AD bulk users, Ghost/WDS to replace RM tools.

[Raja]

Thanks for all your advice guys. rely appreciate it. Is there a good company anyone can recommend so I can speak with them and see whats what. Honestly I had enough of CC3 because of all the small but annoying problems. eg. any system changes made or install would make the Active Primary 3 come up with an error and to resolve it and Admin has to log in and run the program and log off. Then you have internet not working randomly when users log in. stuff like that.

[sukh]

Hi Raja

 

Maybe if you describe your enviornment it may help to identify what you can and can't do. It's difficult to say without decribing your envionrment.

 

Regards

Sukh

[Raja]

Hi Raja

 

Maybe if you describe your enviornment it may help to identify what you can and can't do. It's difficult to say without decribing your envionrment.

 

Regards

Sukh

 

we have 120 client computers. and it will just be used for curriculam network and printers for student and teachers. we have a separate server for admin stuff. let me know if there is any other information you may need to advice me.

[michaelf]

We have just gone the CC3 to Vanilla route and you need to think carefully about how you are replacing a lot of the things which are standard in CC3 but not included in a standard vanilla install - imaging/build solution, Auditor, SmartCache, print credit management, RM Tutor etc.

 

This wasn't thought about at our place and we are now suffering the consequences.

 

I spent a couple of years working with CC3 then moved to a vanilla house so have some experience working with each and both have their good and bad points. However, the two biggest things I'd suggest you consider are:

1. The above advice, while CC3/4 are based on windows they bring a LOT of extras to the table. That's not to say that any of these are unique to CC and can't be achieved without this setup, but expect to have a number of additional services to install beyond just Windows to get the same feature set you're used to.
   
2. Your own skills and time constraints, not just to build things initially but to support them when things go wrong or requirements change in the future. At least with RM there's someone you can call and shout at on the end of a phone.
   

 

Your suggestion of using an external party for assistance with a vanilla solution certainly seems a good half way house between the two, although when dealing with the parties make sure that you get costs not just for the initial installation work but also find out if there are additional costs for upgrades, support and system changes once things are in and sorted.

 

Whichever option you choose it's always good to see people with open minds to the different options available to them and taking serious time to investigate those options.

[Steven_Cleaver]

Hi Raj

 

We mostly use a Vanilla network with extra seperate tools that we use for ease of management ABTutor for workststion control, Papercut for printer management, WDS for Imaging, Prism for Application deployment.I have used a company called Burconix (Burconix - Professional ICT Solutions for Education and SME ) to help with some of the setups and would help you with the move if you wanted from RM, they also have some of their own management tools which would help with ease of Management of your network if you want without locking anything down that you don't want, but as people of said you can just use Vanilla just what ever you feel is best for your environment

[johnfermor]

It all depends on your skillset.

 

If you have relevant expertise of installing and supporting Active Directory, DNS, etc. then a vanilla solution can be tailored to your specific needs. If not, you should consider migrating to to CC4.

 

As already mentioned, RM usually have a significant number of "value-added" features which can be costly going the 3rd-party route. That said, there's plenty of free/low cost packages available to get you similar functionality on vanilla provided you are happy to support it if/when things go wrong.

 

Regards

John

[synaesthesia]

Is there anyone in Northants with a full Win 7 CC4 network? Looking to move forward from CC3 in the near future (large secondary with 3 IT staff including the NM) and need to retain ease of management. Network infrastructure is capable, workstations are capable, and I've seen plenty of windows 7 CC4 stations: would like to see a full size network in use. We're looking at other options for the network too, but easy of management/lack of troubleshooting for a very light IT team is top priority

[the_quick]

Hello everyone, I hope no one mind that I dip in the topic.

 

We are in very similar position, CC3 and want to move to something different. We had look at costs for both CC4 and CSE network toolkit - both costs more than £20k for migration/licensing - we don't have that kind of money. So I setup test domain myself, created few users, created GPOs etc. All works fine with new users on that domain. But now how can I migrate pupils and staff to new domain. In normal environment, you would just move forest root from 2003 to 2008 and it would be easier.

But I don't think I can do that with RM CC3?

So how can I import users to new domain from old one? ADMT 3 would do it?

 

If some one would share how they did it, it would be really great.

[morganw]

I did it by having a tidy up on the CC3 system, then wrote a script to copy the home folders via some external storage (external hard drive or anything that will just hold the files), then put them into the relevant place on the new fileserver(s). My situation was a little more complicated as some students had an additional home folder that would mapped as a drive when they logged on in the music department, so the script also consolidated that in and also drops things like application data on the way (we moved to mandatory profiles).

 

Then when all the home folders were in place I wrote another script to recurse through the home folders and log each folder name to a text file, I then made this into a CSV file for import.

 

To actually import the users and set up shares, security, groups etc I wrote a power shell script that took my CSV as an import. This was the part that was complicated as I wanted everything to be automated (and was more complicated again as I also wanted to provision a second home folder just for use by apple macs on a seperate fileserver).

[johnfermor]

Hello everyone, I hope no one mind that I dip in the topic.

 

We are in very similar position, CC3 and want to move to something different. We had look at costs for both CC4 and CSE network toolkit - both costs more than £20k for migration/licensing - we don't have that kind of money. So I setup test domain myself, created few users, created GPOs etc. All works fine with new users on that domain. But now how can I migrate pupils and staff to new domain. In normal environment, you would just move forest root from 2003 to 2008 and it would be easier.

But I don't think I can do that with RM CC3?

So how can I import users to new domain from old one? ADMT 3 would do it?

 

If some one would share how they did it, it would be really great.

 

 

I'm not sure how easy it is to migrate users from CC3 as I haven't tried it. That said, if you've set-up AD, DNS, GP, etc, you've already done the difficult bit. You can get away with exporting your users using CSVDE and look into scripting to automate their import (unless you only have a few). Things will get more interesting if you have >1 domain controller.

 

There's also plenty of sample logon scripts out there which can map drives, add printers, etc. Provided your DNS is sound, look into desktop and start menu redirection via group policy - this should get you a working system in next to no time.

 

Best of luck.

 

Lest us know how you get on!

 

John

[Janyo]

Hi everyone,

 

I'm so pleased that I'm not on my own in the minefield of upgrading/changing networks!

I work as an IT coordinator at a small primary school and have a fairly limited knowledge about networking an IT solution for a wireless classroom and an ICT room. Our school currently runs on RM CC3 which we would like to upgrade to CC4. However, after receiving a few quotes from RM I'm more confused than I ever was and feel that their quotes are extremely overpriced. As a result, i was thinking about switching to a different network management (Vanilla, EIS, Viglen), hoping to find something cheaper and yet easy to manage. Unfortunately, we only have a technician available at our school once a week for about 4 hours, which means working with RM network makes sense.

I was just wondering if there is anyone with some similar experience or solution to our problem. We are looking into upgrading our server along with the licenses and changing from Windows XP to 7. Also, we are looking itno buying 20 additional laptops for our classes. Those would be purchased from pc world business.

The BIG question is - will I get a better solution than RM anywhere else, provided that my technician can only work those 4 hrs a week?

Thank a lot for your help!

[cpjitservices]

Go Vanilla, The majority of RM's software IE for imaging etc etc you can get somewhere else anyway! Fog being one of the best in my opinion and it's free!, filtering you can also do in Linux using squid so you wont need smartcache - saving you some money, Id be seriously going down the Vanilla route - having helped a school out recently moving away from CC3 they now are a Vanilla network and they prefer it and one of the reasons is cost saving.

[enjay]

The BIG question is - will I get a better solution than RM anywhere else, provided that my technician can only work those 4 hrs a week?

 

By your own admission, you don't know much about the network, so you need something which enables non-technical people to add users, change permissions and so on - the RMMC does this in a way that you could use, even without any knowledge of networking or Active Directory. Doing something in RMMC is often quicker than doing it straight in the Active Directory, so given the very limited amount of technician time you have available, it could be worthwhile, as it would free them up for longer to fix other things while with you. Also, better than that, since you would be able to do some of the routine tasks yourself in the RMMC, this would free your technician up even more during those 4 hours. You also need to be working with a company who you can phone up and ask a "silly" question to, and have them help you.

 

I'm not saying RM are the only company who offer this, but for you, service is more important than price - better to have an expensive network which you can use than a cheap one which you can't.

[witch]

There are other companies that offer a vanilla system overlaid with their own software, and more importantly - they offer tech support and remote server access which is a godsend for those who don't know too much about the actual nuts and bolts.

Around here, a lot of schools use Schoolcare and whilst I don't use them anymore they are very good and a lot cheaper than RM!