Edugeek on Wikipedia

[localzuk]

Ok, from the discussion on the deletion debate, the page needs an article in a media source discussing edugeek itself. Are there any interviews or anything in notable publications that cover Edugeek?

[localzuk]

Learn 4 Life » Interview with Chris Byers - founder of EduGeek

 

Not a notable national publication.

[GrumbleDook]

Not a notable national publication.

 

Again ... frustrating ... they want notable publications, yet they are willing to include references from notable persons (Celeb interviews, sound bites from politicians, twitter rants by footballers), whether these come via blogs or traditional print. Leon is notable in the education technology arena (according to his peers) but not according to Wikipedia.

 

One rule for some and a different one for others.

[localzuk]

Wikipedia is an odd place, where the content seems to take a back seat to rules and regulations now. I stopped editing there a few years back because of this - I found myself arguing more often than being able to edit articles because some pencil pusher wanted to argue over whether British or American English should be used in an article, or whether the Oxford comma should be used etc...

 

Sad really! It puts off new editors too. Imagine turning up there as a new editor only to find your new article deleted within an hour whislt having a list of rules shouted at you. I know I would just leave if that happened to me.

[Dos_Box]

Shouldn't be needed, as logos are covered by the non-free logo tag, so long as some rationale is supplied (ie. it is the site's logo).

 

I've just email them. Just in case. Oh, and can someone correct my name please. It's Byers, not Buyers

And thank you so very much everyone who's spent time on this. It's very, very welcome.

[localzuk]

Erm. I've just had a read of it and it does need work. A lot f work i ffact. Little Miss has all of the details you need, so if she can get those up that would be better, and more accurate. I was NOT an IT manager by the way. I was a Systems Manager and chief techy for Lancashire schools

 

Sure, it needs work! It reads very poorly at the moment. But a poorly written article is better than no article, so we really need to get nationally notable sources in there before anything else.

[localzuk]

Problems with that - the 'noted for high quality' bit. Without a source saying that, it wouldn't be acceptable. Also, the influence and reach part would also need a source. Same for the moderation and efforts bit.

 

They are very fussy about sources. They have to be secondary/tertiary sources also - primary sources can only be used in limited circumstances (eg. to source the goals of the site, you could link to an 'about edugeek' post or something like that).

[jamesb]

Problems with that - the 'noted for high quality' bit. Without a source saying that, it wouldn't be acceptable. Also, the influence and reach part would also need a source. Same for the moderation and efforts bit.

 

They are very fussy about sources. They have to be secondary/tertiary sources also - primary sources can only be used in limited circumstances (eg. to source the goals of the site, you could link to an 'about edugeek' post or something like that).

 

Although there have been some lovely cases where articles in national papers have cited Wikipedia as a source - and then been cited as sources on the very article pages that they're referring to. Recursion is fun.

[somabc]

Audience Snapshot -

Based on internet averages, edugeek.net is visited more frequently by males who are in the age range 25-34 and browse this site from work.

 

Citation - Edugeek.net Site Info

[mattx]

Audience Snapshot -

Based on internet averages, edugeek.net is visited more frequently by males who are in the age range 25-34 and browse this site from work.

 

Citation - Edugeek.net Site Info

 

What happens if I have a sex change ? [ I'm thinking about it ]

[synaesthesia]

MSDN and MSDN blogs carry some weight with reference to sites - if memory and a brief google-recap tells me right, there's been a fair few references to Edugeek directly therein? Is that worth a go?

Also RM link to Edugeek for a review of their Slate - that can't really be bad, or would that be seen as self promotion?

[GrumbleDook]

Yes, you do have to be careful of the 'advertising' side of things ... many companies are very adept at being able to advertise via Wikipedia through careful use of references, citations through others, but it is a dangerous line to walk and you have to be a seriously large / noted company to be able to get away with a fair few things.

[Ric_]

Do references within other Wikipedia articles count for anything? RM plc - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (external link at bottom of page) and Becta - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (reference 29)

[GrumbleDook]

IIRC (and Tony can correct me here) you are only meant to link in the body of the article. References and external links should be external references and external links, the same way if you cite a known fact in a thesis, you have to put where you got the known fact from.

 

Unless EduGeek appears in the body of an article then that article is not supportive of the EG entry.

 

This is not a prod for people to add EduGeek into the body of articles ... that gets spotted very quickly as a tactic to bolster a naff Page.

 

The original attempt at putting and entry for EduGeek was as an addition to the word geek ... in fact to create a stub. EduGeek the forum and the company would have followed on from this, but there were not enough substantive or notable reference to the use of the phrase to describe geeks working in education. Just because we use it as a term, and it has been used by others, if it is not down in writing purely as a term on its own (ie not associated with members of this site) then it will get scrubbed. The fact that a stub is created to allow others to expand is the secret ... but some editors don't like stubs. They get rid of them as untidy.

 

In other encyclopedia you will have a 'published' article and a working article (terminology may vary depending on publishing house and / or researcher). You can stick what you like in the working article as the editor will not release it to the wild until it is a substantiated article with noted references, etc ... but with Wikipedia it is all in together and whilst that is fantastic to see the open development of articles it means that you get less time to keep an editor happy.

 

And at the moment it seems to be a New York second, but the editors will say they are only enforcing the rules.

 

Since EG does have a wiki there is nothing stopping the existing article (as it is) going onto it, for it to continue to be worked on and developed, for any possible reference to be dug out (we have had a number of sponsors for all those events you know ... most of them will have had articles on their websites and if they also have wikipedia entries they must be notable) and then it is developed until a number of Wikipedia regulars can review it, play the role of critical friend ... and then stick it onto wikipedia.

 

Even then it might not stick, but they only way you will find out anymore is by sticking stuff up. Eventually you get something that meets the rules ... and the interpretation of those rules ... or you get a news story out of it from El Reg.

[Little-Miss]

I know i know, i need to get my bottom into gear....goddamnit!

 

I quite liked our original DB, and they did say if we made it less advertisy we could use it.

[localzuk]

The issue that stands at the moment is not the content of the article that exists now, rather whether the site is notable. Notability is difficult to prove for a niche site like this, and ideally what we need is a notable publication (eg. a national magazine, paper or organisation that is itself notable) to produce a piece about the site, and not simply mentioning it somewhere. (The register articles are good here, but we need another I think really).

 

However, any other sources that mention it in passing add more weight to its standing.

 

The article as it is at the moment seems to be leaning towards a weak keep on the request for deletion discussion going on. (Note, do not attempt to go there en-masse and weigh in, as that will just get you banned from editing and shouted at). The best thing that can be done is fleshing it out more and making it more presentable, whilst keeping the advertising and opinions/original research to a minimum (eg. avoid weasel words).

 

Tony is correct also - only external references can be used, internal ones (ie. linking to other parts of wikipedia) are not allowed except to allow someone to look at that subject (like how Becta is linked at the moment).

[Little-Miss]

The one that DB created and i've uploaded seems to be still there at the moment...

[tech_guy]

What happens if I have a sex change ? [ I'm thinking about it ]

 

I've changed my mind and it's yes to the proposal of marriage.

[russdev]

Can this be used

 

How many network managers, technicians and EduGeek members does it take

 

Russ

[john]

Probably worth doing something on conferences and referencing that within it LittleMiss

[Little-Miss]

EduGeek.net - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[GrumbleDook]

First conference was in 2005. I will update the EG wiki later with all the conference details from the first to the proposed one for this year.

[GrumbleDook]

Ok, the EG Wiki is playing up so rather than battle it here is a summary to be worked into something. It is not a complete picture and some folk (including me, Russ, Chris and others) will have to fill in some gaps.

 

EduGeek Conferences (organised and run by EG staff and members, with a variety of speakers organised and chosen by EG staff) : speaker and sponsor details to be filled in later, but most is on the EG Wiki.

 

26.10.2005 - EduGeek Conference (Midlands) : Lodge Park Community College, Corby, Northants

19.04.2006 - EduGeek Conference (North) : Rochdale City Learning College

25.10.2006 - EduGeek Conference (South) : South Camden City Learning Centre

24.10.2007 - EduGeek Conference (Midlands) : Lodge Park Community College, Corby, Northants

29.05.2008 - EduGeek Annual Conference : Lancashire Schools' ICT Centre, Chorley, Lancashire

28.05.2009 - EduGeek Annual Conference : Lancashire Schools' ICT Centre, Chorley, Lancashire

02.06.2010 - EduGeek Annual Conference : Lancashire Schools' ICT Centre, Chorley, Lancashire

02.06.2011 - EduGeek Annual Conference : Westleigh Conference Centre, Preston, Lancashire

 

Other EduGeek Co-hosted / sponsored events

 

30.03.2006 - Task-IT / ICT Register / EduGeek workshop : Task-IT Training Centre, Hemel Hempstead

16.08.2006 - Microsoft / ICT Register / EduGeek Workshop : Microsoft Campus, Reading

21.08.2009 - Microsoft / EduGeek Windows Workshop : Microsoft Campus, Reading

24.02.2011 - Microsoft / EduGeek Conference : Microsoft Campus, Reading

 

I'm pretty sure I have missed off a few there ... possibly some with RM ... Russ would probably remember more than me.

 

Other events notably attended by or supported by EduGeek / EduGeek members (where they wish to be noted as representatives of EduGeek with agreement from DB)

 

29.03.2007 - London Grid for Learning Technicians' Conference

May 2007 - Becta Educational Standards & Specifications (Various)

02.05.2007 - Becta Learning Platform Standards Review Workshop (Various)

10.03.2009 - EMBC IT Conference : Imago, Loughborough University (Various)

24.11.2009 - OFQUAL review of E-Assessment (Chris Byers / Tony Sheppard)

26.01.2011 - IDG / Microsoft / EduGeek Webinar

 

To be added into the above are a number of events where Admins, mods or noted EG members have spoken *and have stated they are EG members / mods / staff / admins*. This includes Chris at the LGfL conference (forgot the year, sorry Chris) and other events, the BSF meeting, me at various Open Source / Sharepoint things, Russ at various events, a number of Becta working groups (Functional and Technical Specifications, Data Protection, etc)

 

Tradeshows

 

BETT Technical Help Point - 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011 (representation of EduGeek at Bett 2006 was on the ICT Register stand and not officially noted by EMAP)

Learning Without Frontiers - 2011

ISTE 2010

Edited February 27, 2011 by GrumbleDook

[russdev]

Various EduGeek.net Members Spoke at Rm Technical Seminars About Self Review Framework The ICT Technicians View -2007

NAACE Naace Think Tank Parental Engagement - I was a speaker - March 2010

EduGeek.Net Open Source Schools UnConference Nottingham - I spoke about green computing - July 2009

Leicestershire Schools Network - I spoke at Various meetings (saving money and green computing) - 2010

 

That is off the top of my head.

[GrumbleDook]

Nice one, Russ ... Dates, locations and links to other websites where it may have been announced (eg RM website?)

 

You know what we could do with ... A working events calendar ... (hint to ZH ) it could be handy for members to record things like this.