Buy Your Own Computer

[Hightower]

Hmmm, another great read from the BBC. Whatever will they think of next?!

 

BBC News - Should employees buy their own computers?

 

Thoughts?

[LeMarchand]

Most of the staff at my schools wouldn't consider buying their own mouse, let alone computer!

[joe90bass]

To some extent it's what we would like to do here, allow staff to use their own equipment. But as others know it isn't a simple task to do securely. Regarding the article, a good point is that having equipment at home for remote working does open the likelihood of family members accessing corporate data if the user doesn't log off! Then there's the support issue, no matter how much they talk about getting your own support contract we all know that it'll be the company IT dept who get the first call............

[Hightower]

That's one argument, but to shine a different light look at it from the point of view of network manager/technician.

 

100 members of staff, each buying their own computer. You are potentially looking at 100 different bits of kit that needs to be managed. It's not an easy job when all your machines are the same make/model/spec, let alone when you'd have 100 different makes/models/specs.

 

EDIT:

 

Then what happens when you get the '3 years from retiring teacher' who turns around and says he's not going to waste his hard-earned money on something that the school should provide? Does the school provide him with an old workstation? Does the school expect him not to use a computer for that last 3 years of his working life? Or does the school give in and buy him a new computer, with others to follow complaining of it not being a fair process?

 

It's a can of worms in my opinion.

Edited January 14, 2011 by Hightower

[teejay]

Interesting, basically they've moved the corporate environment onto a terminal services environment with web access to it and manage that, meaning the connecting device doesn't have to be to enterprise standard. Well, a lot of schools have been doing this for years:rolleyes:

I actually quite like the idea of being given a grant to buy your own equipment to use and to support it yourself.

[jdoyle]

interesting idea. There would be issues but worth considering.

[36Degrees]

Most of the staff at my schools wouldn't consider buying their own mouse, let alone computer!

 

Yup e.g. a very highly paid member of SLT who thought they should have a high spec PC in their infrequently used classroom & another in their office plus have a high spec laptop to leave at home all provided by the school!

[dhicks]

Should employees buy their own computers?

 

Yes. Ideally, I'd have every classroom have a small (Acer Revo), fixed PC to drive a large front-of-classroom display. Each teacher would then have their own (school-owned) tablet device of some sort (quite liked the Fizzbook Spin), which could be used to wirelessly control the front-of-class display, doing away with the need for any IWB hardware. Each teacher would receive, say, £300 every 5 years to spend on home computer equipment. That's enough to buy a netbook or a basic desktop to hook up to the TV or a second-hand monitor, but they would be welcome to go and buy a new Mac and pay the difference if they wanted. They would also receive around £10 a month to pay for home broadband. Ideally, all needed functions could be carried out remotly via a web browser, but otherwise there would be VPN access to a TS server for those that needed it.

 

The above should remove any need to carry any sort of computer equipment (USB stick or laptop) to or from school or use email as a filing cabinet. All that would be needed at home would be a computer of some sort capable of web browsing and, probably, a VPN / Remote Desktop connection. As a school I'd probably sell second-hand PCs to staff for £300 set up with a basic Linux distribution to do just that. I'd support home computer issues but for an hourly charge.

 

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David Hicks

[Hightower]

Yes. Ideally, I'd have every classroom have a small (Acer Revo), fixed PC to drive a large front-of-classroom display. Each teacher would then have their own (school-owned) tablet device of some sort (quite liked the Fizzbook Spin), which could be used to wirelessly control the front-of-class display, doing away with the need for any IWB hardware. Each teacher would receive, say, £300 every 5 years to spend on home computer equipment. That's enough to buy a netbook or a basic desktop to hook up to the TV or a second-hand monitor, but they would be welcome to go and buy a new Mac and pay the difference if they wanted. They would also receive around £10 a month to pay for home broadband. Ideally, all needed functions could be carried out remotly via a web browser, but otherwise there would be VPN access to a TS server for those that needed it.

 

The above should remove any need to carry any sort of computer equipment (USB stick or laptop) to or from school or use email as a filing cabinet. All that would be needed at home would be a computer of some sort capable of web browsing and, probably, a VPN / Remote Desktop connection. As a school I'd probably sell second-hand PCs to staff for £300 set up with a basic Linux distribution to do just that. I'd support home computer issues but for an hourly charge.

 

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David Hicks

 

You've basically said that staff should buy their own home machines - a lot of staff do that already, and a lot of what you said should be in place already happens. The post is about whether staff should have to buy their own PC for use at work.

[dhicks]

The post is about whether staff should have to buy their own PC for use at work.

 

Should teachers have to buy their own PC for use in school? Heavens, no. Should a school network be able to cope with external devices being brought in? Yes, of course. Put password-free wireless on its own VLAN (you could have a separate password-protected wireless VLAN if you wanted) for user's home devices. For the wired network, have a PXE-bootable Linux distribution available so anyone who wanted to could boot over PXE on their own device to use the school's standard setup (probably justlocal web browsing and a VPN connection to the TS server again).

 

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David Hicks

[rad]

Hey look, i have the latest computer, mine is better than your's. Come on, this will not work, people get a "clothing" and PPP allowance, asking them to buy a computer is taking the p.

[Hightower]

Should teachers have to buy their own PC for use in school? Heavens, no. Should a school network be able to cope with external devices being brought in? Yes, of course. Put password-free wireless on its own VLAN (you could have a separate password-protected wireless VLAN if you wanted) for user's home devices. For the wired network, have a PXE-bootable Linux distribution available so anyone who wanted to could boot over PXE on their own device to use the school's standard setup (probably justlocal web browsing and a VPN connection to the TS server again).

 

Should the IT team support these devices then? How does insurance work? There's a lot of questions to be asked. How do you deal with possible data leaks etc.

[TechMonkey]

As with some of the people in the article, I'm not quite sure some have grasped what the companies are doing. They are basically virtualising their clients (TS or Citrix or another) and allowing people to use their own hardware to access the companies systems. The hardware is the users responsibility. They have to buy an appropriate support contract so I imagine insure it themselves as well.

 

Someone on here mentioned a very similar thing not that long ago, allowing kids to bring their own laptops in, connect to a safe VPN'd wireless and use citrix to to all intents and purposes work the same as any other pupil. I really like the idea as it does open a world of possibilities to staff and students.

 

Would it work in a school to the extent the companies have? Probably not. Would the theory work as an extension to what we all ready do? I think so.

[penfold]

In short no. If I need a computer to do my job I expect it to be provided by my work. I take this stance on anything. If I need it to do the job I am employed to do then I should be provided with the equipment to do this.

 

Of course it cuts costs, you are making your staff pay for what the employeer should already be providing. If staff want to bring in additional equipment then that is a different matter, but to expect staff to bring in their own computer is crazy in my opinion. Would I be expected to bring in my own cleaning materials if I was a cleaner?

 

I may have read this article wrong so would be please if someone can explain the point in a better way.

[dhicks]

Should the IT team support these devices then?

 

No, the open wireless and wired points are a networking free-for-all. Teachers should have school-provided equipment to use, anyone who wants to connect their own device to the network is going to have to figure out how to do it themselves.

 

How does insurance work?

 

I imagine that would be for individuals to sort out, probably with their home insurance providor.

 

How do you deal with possible data leaks etc.

 

You access sensitive data via VPN and Terminal Services - no data wanders off on USB sticks or out of random printers, it all stays on a couple of central servers.

 

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David Hicks

[Hightower]

In short no. If I need a computer to do my job I expect it to be provided by my work. I take this stance on anything.

 

But one could argue that you NEED clothes to do your job - you can't do it naked. Should work pay for these also?

 

I'm just trying to play devil's advocate here so don't read into my comments too much - just trying to get a decent discussion about this going.

[CAM]

I think there are certain legal issues surrounding a lack of clothes at work, though it is a policy that once made for some terrible reality TV.

[penfold]

But one could argue that you NEED clothes to do your job - you can't do it naked. Should work pay for these also?

 

I'm just trying to play devil's advocate here so don't read into my comments too much - just trying to get a decent discussion about this going.

 

Isn't that why work provides a uniform to those that need it? And you dont NEED clothes to do your job, sometimes it even helps as it means no more getting a tie stuck in a printer

 

And dont worry, I did ask people to pick holes in my argument as I dont really understand why employees should pay a cost to do their job. I understand why it is good to allow users to use their own technology, for example I use the wireless here on my phone, but I dont expect work to buy me a new phone as I dont need this to do my job.

Edited January 14, 2011 by penfold

[somabc]

Yes but you need clothes to get to work, unless you work from home so the clothes are an incidental expense.

 

I think the difference here is if you require your employees to use a computer to do their Job it would not be acceptable to say you have to buy your own or be fired.

[TechMonkey]

But the employers are supplying the user with a computer in that they are giving the money they would spend and saying if you want anything above and beyond that, you make it up. Don't forget these will be in companies that mobile working is the norm, that a majority are probably out of the office or working from home and probably only use the computer to email, make & carry out presentations and write up a few documents. The company has probably decided that users will use the computers for home use anyway, probably more than for work, so why not spin it round and make them responsible. I bet this helps with the laptops being looked after or being left lying around.

 

Add to that the remote working will be secure so as someone said, no USB or email leakage for important data, no worries if the laptop is lost and I imagine viruses have a greater problem getting into a remote session so home working is less of a viral threat (I may be wrong on that though).

[Hightower]

But the employers are supplying the user with a computer in that they are giving the money they would spend and saying if you want anything above and beyond that, you make it up. Don't forget these will be in companies that mobile working is the norm, that a majority are probably out of the office or working from home and probably only use the computer to email, make & carry out presentations and write up a few documents. The company has probably decided that users will use the computers for home use anyway, probably more than for work, so why not spin it round and make them responsible. I bet this helps with the laptops being looked after or being left lying around.

 

Add to that the remote working will be secure so as someone said, no USB or email leakage for important data, no worries if the laptop is lost and I imagine viruses have a greater problem getting into a remote session so home working is less of a viral threat (I may be wrong on that though).

 

So if they are getting a set budget to put towards their computer (say £300) it would be easier from a management point of view to go out and buy 30 x £300 laptops. If the two options are a) give £300 for someone to buy a computer or b) spend the £300 on a computer for them then I'd pick B all day, every day.

[penfold]

But the employers are supplying the user with a computer in that they are giving the money they would spend and saying if you want anything above and beyond that, you make it up. Don't forget these will be in companies that mobile working is the norm, that a majority are probably out of the office or working from home and probably only use the computer to email, make & carry out presentations and write up a few documents. The company has probably decided that users will use the computers for home use anyway, probably more than for work, so why not spin it round and make them responsible. I bet this helps with the laptops being looked after or being left lying around.

 

 

In that case it makes sense. Effectively you are forcing the user to look after the equipment by getting them to pay towards their own laptop. Chainging the way users think from "it's ok it's work's laptop, I dont care it is broken/lost/stolen I can get a new one" to "I paid for some of this it's my money wasted if I dont look after it". In which case it makes perfect sense.

[LosOjos]

sometimes it even helps as it means no more getting a tie stuck in a printer

 

Trust me, it's better getting your tie stuck in the printer than the possibilities when you're nude!

 

One point nobody seems to have brought up yet: what happens when the employee leaves the business? Currently, the employer owns the equipment, so they can take it back to re-use/recycle/sell, but if employee's are putting their own money in to buying the hardware, then they must also take part ownership of the prouct. Do you sell it and split the profit, or let them keep it and write off the £300 you gave them toward it? It could get very expensive for employers, more so than repairs potentially...

[penfold]

Trust me, it's better getting your tie stuck in the printer than the possibilities when you're nude!

 

 

Lol, ouch!!!

 

And an interesting point you made regarding cost.

[dhicks]

It could get very expensive for employers

 

£300 per hire should, hopefully, be considered a modest amount by most organisations, certainly for employees like teachers who you'd think should be around for at least a year.

 

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David Hicks