[sims] Leaving LA Support and moving to Capita Direct Support?

[itdirector]

Despite the 'look' of my username/low post number, I'm actually a reasonably well established member who has created a new username under the direction of senior colleagues who specifically don't want to upset LA colleagues with the enquiry!

 

As the title suggests, I am looking for stories/pro's/con's from people who may have moved from LA-based SIMS Support to support direct from Capita?

 

More generally, I would welcome any feedback from anyone else who gets support direct from Capita (whether you have moved from LA support or not). Are they good/bad/indifferent? Do you feel you are getting value for money? How quick are reaction times to issues etc?

[dwhyte85]

We go direct to Capita for support

 

They remote connect if they can't solve it over the phone or e-mail (normally they'll bung over a patch), issues are always resolved quickly but it helps if you are a bit technical to help as they guide you.

 

One instance they've not found a fix quickly was with something we had with timetabling... this was fixed in a seasonal release - we had to wait a bit for that one, but it wasn't really critical they did give a work around.

[Debby]

The problem we have with the LA is experienced staff are leaving and we know more about SIMs than the help desk do!

You wouldn't get that with Capita!

[vikpaw]

The problem we have with the LA is experienced staff are leaving and we know more about SIMs than the help desk do!

You wouldn't get that with Capita!

Ahem, you've got your fingers crossed right?!

 

@itdirector - this recent thread http://www.edugeek.net/forums/mis-systems/48942-3rd-party-sims-support-companies.html wont be that much use to you, but there was another one quite recently that weighed up the pros and cons well, as an active member you would have seen it...?

 

personally, i wouldn't want to go back to LA support after being supported directly by Capita, however, i have met some awesome LA bods on here, so maybe it was just my experiences that weren't all that good.

 

We get very quick responses now, even considering our working week only overlaps by 3 days and then only for 4 hours a day. So the only bugbear is we still pay full price. Saying that, Zoe at Bedford, often works late evenings and even responds on weekends, and we couldn't live without her support or any of the other girls (and boys) on the team for that matter.

 

The bulk of our incidents are reported online and get responded to fairly quickly, i've only once needed a remote session. Usually i just get a phone call and we work through things together with me in control. My old support team always seemed to want to see it for themselves!

 

I think it works out more expensive than local support, but in my opinion it's definitely worth it. so i guess it really depends on what your local support is like, and what other options are available in the area.

[Sivadam]

This school did exactly what you are suggesting a few years ago.

 

I would not recommend this unless you are absolutely certain that somebody in the school has a complete understanding of all aspects of SIMS and that somebody also has a complete understanding of the Technical side re. installations, networking etc etc. This could, obviously, be the same person but I have yet to meet anybody working in a school who could claim to be that proficient.

 

We moved because, at that time, the LA did not support all aspects of SIMS and we were using SIMS Products that we had bought into directly with Capita and were obviously supported by them, such as Learning Gateway. We were also involved in Field Trials such as Cover7, which again were supported by Capita. It made perfect sense to have all our support with the same support team.

 

We have never regretted the move and the support we have had, direct from Capita, has been nothing short of excellent. That is not to say that we have had preferential treatment! Because I can log all cases directly on to SupportNet, I can explain in detail what the issue is, what I have attempted to do to the resolve the situation and any workarounds that I may have sorted out. Trying to do this via a 3rd party support team is often not that successful as, sometimes, the gist of the information can get accidently corrupted as it is passes through the intermediary.

 

The move also, I believe, benefitted Capita to some extent as we are now heavily involved in Field Trial Testing, UAT, Software consultation etc. etc. because they also respect the expertise that we have in the school.

 

Having said all this, I reiterate - unless you are fully proficient in all aspects of SIMS then I would not recommend you to take this step. I have said the same to some other staff in Sheffield Schools who have asked me the same question. Your knowledge of, and expertise in, SIMS needs to be equivalent or, preferably, greater than that of the current Support Team!

Edited November 24, 2010 by Sivadam

[vikpaw]

Having said all this, I reiterate - unless you are fully proficient in all aspects of SIMS then I would not recommend you to take this step. I have said the same to some other staff in Sheffield Schools who have asked me the same question. Your knowledge of, and expertise in, SIMS needs to be equivalent or, preferably, greater than that of the current Support Team!

 

I disagree, moving to a different Support company in this case Capita, is not like an upgrade, because you've outgrown the existing company. They should be able to provide the same level of service and in some cases better service. The issue of not being fully competent with SIMS shouldn't affect the support, else by your standards they would have very few schools on their books!

[itdirector]

Thank you all for sharing your comments and experiences. They are greatly appreciated and very useful.

I imagine that Capita wouldn't be keen on pricing being posted here, but if anyone would be able to PM me a rough outline of the support cost, and possibly contact details you might have, that would be great.

[Ric_]

I looked into this last year and discovered Capita's pricing was considerably cheaper than the local support provider. We didn't move for some reason, despite the change in support not affecting our ability or pricing on SIMS courses with the local support contractor.

 

I would also agree with vikpaw, that the school's competence with SIMS has no bearing on the moving of your support direct to Capita. It is very much a 'sideways' move, much like changing your utility supplier (you just pay someone else for an equivalent service).

[scholarpack]

If you're changing support providers to the original creator of a piece of software, surely you wouldn't need to increase in-house technical knowledge too. Sivadam you make it sound like there's a small army of people working to keep on top of everything MIS wise at your school, then say the support is excellent. I'm not doubting that - but doesn't excellent support mean less time spent on technicalities in-house.

[Sivadam]

If you're changing support providers to the original creator of a piece of software, surely you wouldn't need to increase in-house technical knowledge too. Sivadam you make it sound like there's a small army of people working to keep on top of everything MIS wise at your school, then say the support is excellent. I'm not doubting that - but doesn't excellent support mean less time spent on technicalities in-house.

 

The support I need almost always refers to new functionality that has been introduced and is, in my view, not operating as intended. Invariably, my Support Cases are quickly moved up to escalation as they are 'real issues'. The software is repaired or enhanced so that my issue is resolved via a Site Specific Patch, or all schools that use SIMS benefit as a result of the release of Global Patches or Fixes included in future upgrades. There are a couple of such fixes included in the Release Notes for SIMS v7.136.

 

I do not need to use SIMS Support re. normal use of the Software because I am obviously here and can inservice our staff in the functionality that we require. This includes much of the new functionality included in new releases, as I will have normally already tested it at UAT.

 

Hence my comments in my original post! It is also why I suggested that competence in the software was important before moving to SIMS Support! In my case 'support' is obviously a different concept to 'support' that others are referring to. Any gaps in my knowledge of SIMS are quickly filled by use of SupportNet 'Solution Search' or via the SupportNet Forums. I do not normally 'need' a support desk to do this!

Edited November 24, 2010 by Sivadam

[vikpaw]

Then you don't need Support if everything is happy in your house, but you can't expect other schools to be that 'perfect'. For the sort of 'support' you need, you shouldn't have to pay for it, fixing issues and bugs with new features should be free, they should pay you for it!

[itdirector]

We are actually somewhere between vikpaw and sivadam. We have a very experienced SIMS user base, but no centrally trained support person who has an overview of all modules. This is why in some cases normal sims user problems are passed to external SIMS support. In an ideal world I would like this to change regardless of where our external support sits, but the important thing for us is knowing we are able to get a high quality of 'support' (whatever that may be) from those who we pay money to via a support contract/SLA!

 

Continued thanks for all input.

[User3204]

I have found the Capita SIMS support to be the best around - no I don't work for Capita !

 

Whether we break the database or their software does something, they have been able to fix it quickly.

Sometimes we have to send them our database, but they will then send us back a patch to fix it.

 

I would recommend someone on site being responsible for SIMS, although we also have regular SIMS Management meetings, where we get together the main / heavy users to discuss ongoing developments. I think we're some sort of partner school.

[Sivadam]

Thank you all for sharing your comments and experiences. They are greatly appreciated and very useful.

I imagine that Capita wouldn't be keen on pricing being posted here, but if anyone would be able to PM me a rough outline of the support cost, and possibly contact details you might have, that would be great.

 

As regards costing, I would suggest that you contact Capita directly to get a quote for what your school actually requires. The actual cosats that you will pay will depend on which packages you want to buy into, the level of support that you require and the size of your school. You will have to pay an administration fee for the move to be made. Once you have such a quote then you can make a more informed decision.

We opted for the cheapest level of support for the reasons I have stated above. What I did not say is that this also includes telephone and remote access support if/when we need it.

[jayemm]

We are currently looking at this too. The cost for being a Direct site is usually less than being supported by the LA. I am at my 3rd school in the same LA, and my two previous schools the first was already a direct site, the second became one when I started.

 

I have always found Capita to provide better support than the LA, but I think that is issues in my LA.

 

The only potential issue I ever had was with transfering the license. I was led to believe that some of the license could be owned by the LA and you have to have their consent to transfer the license with you. But they should tell you if this could be an issue when you request pricing.

 

In my case Capita Direct was about £3000 less PA.

[matt40k]

In defence of the LA's etc, Capita provide break-fix support, LA's provide that, via Capita, along with "how do i?" support. Break-Fix is a must, you can't avoid it. LA's get a percentage back for doing the donkey work. They tend to bulk it up by embedding training and also offering cheaper training, so instead of pay £1k to Capita you can pay (I'm guessing) £400 to your LA.

 

The only problem I see with Sivadam school is what happens when he leaves. Hopefully they are large enough and wise enough to have staff to pick everything up when he does leave and they are not silly enough to think SIMS users - aka admin staff, are easily replaceable. Long go are the days of schools hiring high level math teachers.

 

Although SIMS is very simple to learn it doesn't get the most out of it, like Sivadam is doing day after day, nor will it be as smooth and trouble free!!

 

IMHO you need at least 3 SIMS experts to cover the bulk with a nice bit of cross over with regards to knowledge. If you don't have this, you'll need a training\support deal. They need to be local, they need to be able to visit and offer onsite day visits, so if you need a timetabling creating, or cover 7 doing for a few days along with other bits, they can offer such a thing or at the very least give you a helping hand.

 

Now whether this is "Capita", your LA, another school, a 3rd party or Joe's fish'n'chip down the road, I guess it depends on the cost, quality of service etc.

 

Out of interest, how much, if they can, does Capita charge if your LDF becomes corrupt because of your backup (or such) and you have no valid backup?

[Sivadam]

The only problem I see with Sivadam school is what happens when he leaves. Hopefully they are large enough and wise enough to have staff .......

Exactly right Matt! We have some very knowledgable staff here but we have to ensure that we have a comprehensive succession plan in place in the next couple of years! I ain't too far from moving into a life of 'leisure'.

 

One of the main issues is getting somebody to take the timetabling role that I have held for over a quarter of a century. On at least two occasions now, I have managed to inservice senior staff into timetabling in general (inc Curriculum planning!) and then into the basics of NT6. Each of these staff then subsequently left the school to move to a higher management position in another school before they have even had chance to attempt putting a timetable together!

 

 

..... Out of interest, how much, if they can, does Capita charge if your LDF becomes corrupt because of your backup (or such) and you have no valid backup?

 

I don't normally comment on questions about Capita and LA costs costs because they will be dependent on different criteria in each school/LA, but this is an easy one to answer!

'SIMS Guidance on Chargeable Fixes' is in the Sticky Items section on the SupportNet Homepage, as is the 'SIMS Customer Support Charter'.

Edited November 26, 2010 by Sivadam

[RichB]

We have been with Capita now for a year, my Sims knowledge has decreased because every time we have a problem I pick the phone up and they remote to our sims server and fix the issue. Plain and simple. The engineer at the other end with talk you through things or remote and tell you ever step of the way whats going on. A few times ive left them working (had my dinner) and they'd phoned back to say everything is working!

 

Sometimes abit slow to solve things i.e 1-2 days at the max. Ive got nothing but praise and if your Sims tech, manager is away its no biggy!

[creese]

We have been with Capita now for a year, my Sims knowledge has decreased because every time we have a problem I pick the phone up and they remote to our sims server and fix the issue. Plain and simple. The engineer at the other end with talk you through things or remote and tell you ever step of the way whats going on. A few times ive left them working (had my dinner) and they'd phoned back to say everything is working!

 

Isn't that what every SIMS Support Team does???

[matt40k]

Chelmsford Service Desk Systems Down

Chelmsford Service Desk are currently experiencing technical difficulties with phone lines and Logging system.

We are looking into these issues urgently and apologise for any inconvenience.

 

It brought a smile to my face.

[Sivadam]

Good job we don't use Chemsford then........! http://hgs.sheffield.digitalbrain.com/site/util/custom/editor/default/editor/images/smiley/msn/regular_smile.gif

[Sylv3r]

As part of a review of all of our SLA agreements recently I asked the question to CAPITA for a costing for the exact support that our LA provide us - CAPITA came in at around £5k more than what we currently pay for the support from the LA. We don't have any issues with the LA support but I was interested if their was a cost saving at all going direct to CAPITA.

 

I guess the LA have negotiated such a good deal with CAPITA and cover enough schools in the area to provide a good service at a good rate + if we had moved to CAPITA we would miss out on the free MIS courses available through the LA.