IT qualifications

[Uraken]

Hi i guess most of you guys are like me and came in to the job through industry and gained qualifications like MCP A+ etc, a question i always get asked by our students who want to be an ICT technician/network manager is what courses they should do whilst at school and subsequently at college, has anyone come via the college route that can give some insight? thanks in advance.

[plexer]

Bit of a generalisation there then on the route people have taken into their current job.

 

I went to university and got a computer degree and then started in a secondary school as ICT Technician after a couple of years there I moved into a single handed network managers position for another 2 years and am currently in my third school again as network manager but with 2 technicians.

 

Ben

[webman]

I consider myself very fortunate, in that I started the job with only my GCSEs (all A-Cs). Since then, I've done NVQ 2 (almost completed L3) in System Support, and I'm halfway through CCNA.

[Lee_K_81]

After finishing school I went to a college and did a BTEC ND in computing. (Some uni's wont accept these now, but it was better for uni course as it gave me more experience). After that i went on to uni, and did a degree in computer science. After that i got a job as a full time technician, but went back to uni in the evenings to do a Masters degree in computer science.

 

After almost 2 years as a tech, i became a systems manager in charge of 2 techs, which is what i'm doing now. 10 months in and things are going well, about to get a third tech.

[Midget]

I did a real ComSc degree (sorry axe to gind over shit cs degree that friend is now doing) before getting into this job.

[krisd32]

after school i wemt to college and did a btec nd in telecommunications.

after that i managed to get a job at hte local IT firm which in turn sent to do a 1 day a week HNC in computing. going next month to do my MCDST course for 5 days over feb half term! this is my first job in a school much better than industry I think so any way!

 

Kris

[AshF]

Got my A-Levels, my GCSEs. All through this process I was working part time at a local internet cafe, then a local computer shop, doing repairs, sales, etc.

 

Spent a year at Uni, dropped out for various reasons involving my family.

Ended up working for Tiny's helpdesk. Then to a dotcom that sadly went bust (like so many).

 

Moved back to gloucestershire and after a period of part time employment started work in a school as a Junior Technician, a year and a bit later moved back towards London as a Senior Technician, a year after that got the post of network manager.

 

I've gotten where I am mostly by experience and my wits alone. I've completed a number of MCSE courses but not taken the exams.

 

I'm aware I need to change this at some point and get some documented qualifications to my name, but work and life just keep me too damned busy...

[DMcCoy]

I have none, except a computer science degree. Not that there was much content about computers as such. Although I do find the theory quite insteresting

 

Since then I've done some apple training, but no other training since I started. Not that I haven't learnt anything, I would like to do the formal Vmware ESX qualifications, would be useful for when bsf hits and I need to find a nice job somewhere!

[Uraken]

"generalisation" of course it was how do i know what route you all took? is there a standard one ben?

[Geoff]

I think you should always value experience over any qualifications. Some of the more common industry qualifications seem to be particularly abused. Anyone who's had to conduct a practical test for and interview knows the kind of people who seem to be attracted to the job.

[plexer]

Uraken: I meant the generalisation that most people came in via industry.

 

Ben

[EvLPhenom]

I left school with 8 GCSE's... i think all A to C and went straight to college and studied ICT at an Advanced VCE level and then got my first IT job as a trainee. which is where i am now.

[SpuffMonkey]

After finishing school I went to a college

 

Blimey - you went to finishing school - was it in Switzerland?

 

Seriously - those of us of a "mature" age usually just drifted into IT from other things (I have a degree in Industrial Engineering), when there was a shortage of staff in the 80s.

 

I tell kids to train up to be accountants - its a lot more use to them than IT. :?

[Uraken]

Ah yes now i see ben its a fair point (which you make superbly well, now had i gone to college i would have spotted my generalisation first time around)

Thanks for all your insights i'll tell them to try and get into plmbing then (via college)

[AshF]

I think you should always value experience over any qualifications. Some of the more common industry qualifications seem to be particularly abused. Anyone who's had to conduct a practical test for and interview knows the kind of people who seem to be attracted to the job.

 

My Senior IT Tech has a degree... In Philosophy. He's about to take on a newly created Developer role. Like me he has taken the 'knowledge by experience and experimentation' route. I wish more people valued experience over qualifications. Sadly in the greater world it doesn't seem to be the way of things a lot of the time...

[Lee_K_81]

After finishing school I went to a college

 

Blimey - you went to finishing school - was it in Switzerland?

 

Seriously - those of us of a "mature" age usually just drifted into IT from other things (I have a degree in Industrial Engineering), when there was a shortage of staff in the 80s.

 

I tell kids to train up to be accountants - its a lot more use to them than IT. :?

 

Yes, skiing in the alps every day.

They taught us elocution (but not spelling) and how to carry oneself in a correct manner.

 

OK, i meant "After I finished school". Jeeze grammar police or what!

[AshF]

Grammar police are like the Spanish Inquisition...

[Midget]

I wish more people valued experience over qualifications. Sadly in the greater world it doesn't seem to be the way of things a lot of the time...

 

Until they stop HR drones from writing jobspecs, whitiling candidates down, and conducting interviews, this will never happen

[Lee_K_81]

Grammar police are like the Spanish Inquisition...

 

NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition! Our chief weapon is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... Our two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency.... Our *three* weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency...and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope.... Our *four*...no... *Amongst* our weapons.... Amongst our weaponry...are such elements as fear, surprise....

[Geoff]

I wish more people valued experience over qualifications. Sadly in the greater world it doesn't seem to be the way of things a lot of the time...

 

A lot of companies (mainly the smaller ones) are getting seriously burned by this. I recently went for a job interview and I was the only who was able to complete the practical test in the allotted time. Most of the other applicants had several qualifications (CCNA, MSCE, Degree whatever) yet fell down hard when faced with real problems.

 

I think given a few more years the situation might of swung back round to a more balanced view of experience vs qualifications by employers.

 

Personally I feel IT is one of those trades that would benefit from the old fashioned apprenticeship system. It's kind of how we do things here in house. I'm the Senior Tech, I train/pass on knowledge (generally server/network stuff) to the Tech. He trains up the Junior Tech (generally deskop/software/peripherals stuff) and everyone improves their skills.

[MK-2]

Geoff, I agree fully.

I have no IT related qualifications. Everything I know is self taught and through experience.

 

Now I'm not saying I know that much, but my experience helps me react in situations faster than having to think 'what did MCSA training teach me.' I know it's a generalisation there, but experience should really count over qualifications.

You can have a 20yr old, just out of Uni who has a degree and a MCSE but has never been in an environment where 200 people are demanding you fix something within the next 5 minutes.

 

Maybe future MS training should include things like how to deal with stroppy non-IT users

[Lee_K_81]

Geoff, I agree fully.

I have no IT related qualifications. Everything I know is self taught and through experience.

 

Now I'm not saying I know that much, but my experience helps me react in situations faster than having to think 'what did MCSA training teach me.' I know it's a generalisation there, but experience should really count over qualifications.

You can have a 20yr old, just out of Uni who has a degree and a MCSE but has never been in an environment where 200 people are demanding you fix something within the next 5 minutes.

 

Maybe future MS training should include things like how to deal with stroppy non-IT users

 

I agree that in the first instance experience SHOULD win over, but long term you will probably find it's those that get the experience and quals.

 

If you were interviewing candidates:

Cand 1: 9 years experience, no formal quals

Cand 2: 8 Years experience, MCSE, CCNA

Cand 3: 6 years experience, Degree, MCP

 

It would likely be cand 2 or 3 right? Obviously this is very generic and in an actual interview situation cand 1 might blow them away while the others flop, but on paper you'd be looking at 2 or 3.

 

The point i'm trying to convey is that experience is great, so is qualifications, either academic or professional, but it's when you combine the 2 that you really do yourself the best chance. There is no hard and fast rule on this career path, as there is in accountancy, law, or medicine.

[MK-2]

No I agree on that point, if all candidates had many years of experience then fair enough.

It's when job adverts say an MCSE is essential that it's silly. Because that means you are excluding people with experience who haven't got the certs but know just as much.

[AshF]

Until they stop HR drones from writing jobspecs, whitiling candidates down, and conducting interviews, this will never happen

 

I do two and a half of those things...

 

The Job Spec is written with my general eye over things, and the other two steps are done by myself, the MIS manager and then the final all clear by the deputy head...

 

for the most part, this works well.

[AshF]

Maybe future MS training should include things like how to deal with stroppy non-IT users

 

Also being able to identify little things like a VGA port, a Serial Port, SATA and so on would be useful...

 

I have seen people with more MCSEs than I can remember sit down and take a 'Identify the component' test and fall on their face. You may have lots of certificates but thats not going to help you replace a HDD...

 

For a while this college used to get it's junior techs as students on a gap year from Uni...

My first year had Kev, who was all in all a great technician. His windows knowledge was solid as a rock and he had a fairly good programming base (indeed, he made our current web-based IT support database whilst here for the year). His hardware knowledge wasn't great. But we dealt with that. He learnt quickly and before he left he'd spec'd and built his own PC. Then there was Dan who was the mirror opposite and not only didn't know windows, he also didn't like it, and skulked until i gave him an old compaq to run Linux on.

But again, he learnt, and he learnt quickly, and both have taken those skills and used them, and I'd hire the pair of them again in a flash if i had the chance.