Good switches to go for...

[CyberNerd]

At maximum download rates which almost never happen

I don't see why not? if you load a file/program from a network share, then surely the client will use the maximum bandwidth available to it - unless there is a bottleneck somewhere...

 

Seriously how many client pcs do you have in each catchment area, what is the backhaul link and what are they being used for that maxes them continuously.

 

I suppose we have between 50 and 150 machines for every 2Mb/s link, with 650-700 ish machines in total. Staff and students are starting to bring in their own equipment, so this number is increasing very quickly (about 80 staff/student owned machines so far this term) The are 14 separate VLANS that all connect to 4x 5500 gigabit switches (link by 46GB/s cables, in an XRN stack). The core then plugs into wireless controller @4GB/s and bladecentre @8GB/s. I would be happier if we had fewer cabinets with faster uplinks, it makes things much easier to manage.

 

We don't really have network problems that I notice, and I don't thinkt he clients are being maxed out, they work at 100MB/s. Historically we had issues with kids saving 300Mb photoshop files - maxing out the server. we run quite a few apps over network shares, but again - not a problem. The only networking issue we really have now is pipe to the internet - a poor 10Mb/s, and that is constantly saturated.

[IanT]

another vote here for ProCurve, I have alot of the 2510G-48

[john]

I use Netgear switches and they have been fine, also have some Cisco ones that a very kind Edugeek member donated to me to help me swap out some failing non-Netgear ones which are also good but take so long to configure and get working and make my brain hurt! But I will get there eventually

[Cools]

"It does depend on the number of clients" *DRINKing*.. god what crap.. unless your cliensts are pulling ISOs then 1gb clients on 1gb backbone is fine.. its the backbone in the switch you need to keep a eye on. all my servers have 4gb team network cards.

 

the data you should be pulling should not exceed the 56mb rule for Wifi.. ( if you cant run it over wifi stop wasting your life... )

 

the kids pull only docs.. profile .man 1.5mb what more do you need... Quake.iso

 

go and do your N+

Edited September 25, 2010 by Cools

[SYNACK]

@CyberNerd - Our file transfers hardly ever hit max rate as they are done so quickly, our profiles are 20-30mb and apps are in general max of 20mb. Each file transfered adds a small gap between each one due to the way the SMB works so given usage patterns you get plenty of bandwidth. We have users occasionally saving 1+GB video files to the servers but most of the time it is just word docs etc that max out at around 40-50mb. We do run Office 2010 which cuts down massivly on the filesizes and Windows 7 which has a much more robust network stack though.

 

Again it works perfectly well for us and for you to say that your way is the only way is a tad arrogant.

 

I think that we should probably split this debate into another thread as it is kind of taking over on this one unfairly.

Edited September 25, 2010 by SYNACK

[cpjitservices]

Hey,

 

Why not look at getting in some Nortel switches they are very heavy duty and are very easy to configure and te be honest I prefer them over Cisco switches.

 

You can get some good deals off of Nortel including at the moment we have a stack of 40 switches not being used pulled out of the switch room and Nortel are going to buy those back of us and give us a discount on our next purchase.

 

Maybe worth a look you can get some good switches with some really good hardware, check them out at :

 

 

Used Nortel Switch Network Equipment

 

Welcome to Nortel

 

Might I add also that Nortel switches are a lot cheaper than some of the other companies and seem to last a bit longer we had one with an uptime of nearly 6 years - it had never been turned off or restarted in all that time.

 

Our entire network is filled with these switches as they are excellent.

[talksr]

My goodness. I go home for the weekend and come back to all of these posts!

Thanks again for all of your posts and info.

 

Today we had some further network issues which really didn't help. It has been keeping me so busy it is a nightmare.

 

I noticed the HP Procurv 2510G-24 & 2510G switches, I also noticed that they were twice the price of the

HP Procurve 2610-48 port

and HP Procurve 2610 -24port

 

that I mentioned in the op.

 

My question is, in your opinion(s), would 1gbit be worthy of a primary school?

We have just over 100 pc's. Mainly RM. Around 40 laptops which use the new RM managed wireless system (Trapeze)

We have an RM CC4 system and a windows 2008 server system for windows 7 clients for admin which have around 15 pc's.

 

There is no ict suite, just lots of computers for class rooms. There is no expresso or mle system here.

 

In our cab we have:

 

A 1 x Allied Telesys AT-8000S 100mbps 48 prt managed switch

B1 x Allied Telesys AT-8350GB 100mbps 48 prt managed switch

C1 xAllied Telesys 100 mbps 48 very old unmanaged switch

D various 100mbps mini switches for the admin network. (no more than 24 ports needed)

 

I had already earmarked C and D switches to be replaced. But what with the continual network issues I am experiencing, I am now wondering about replacing the lot.

But if I were to go for these gigabit managed switches at over £1000 each, I would be looking at £3000 for switches a,b and c and then about £350 for a 24 port managed hp switch for admin.

 

Your suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

[mjs_mjs]

the cisco/linksys slm2024, 2048 arn't bad - there not the best but 24/48Gb ports, SFP's, and some management features such as vlan and agregating links/truning/bonding. 48Gb ports for under 500quid i think. we use them, a hp procurve 5406vz core switch and some older 3com superstack 3 on our network, no problems with the 10+ cisco/linksys so far.

[cpjitservices]

Cisco is expensive as are the HP Pro Curves, try this link you will be able to get a free quote.

 

Worth a look I think and they are dead easy to configure!!!

 

Nortel: Products: Ethernet Routing Switch 5510: FAQs

[localzuk]

Cisco is expensive as are the HP Pro Curves, try this link you will be able to get a free quote.

 

Worth a look I think and they are dead easy to configure!!!

 

Nortel: Products: Ethernet Routing Switch 5510: FAQs

 

Erm. They seem to average > £3.5k for 48 gigabit ports. How on any planet is that cost effective compared to HP Procurve?

[glennda]

Erm. They seem to average > £3.5k for 48 gigabit ports. How on any planet is that cost effective compared to HP Procurve?

 

We have a load of nortel switches for our core - they are ok but we are looking to replace with procurve next year

[localzuk]

We have a load of nortel switches for our core - they are ok but we are looking to replace with procurve next year

 

Why are you replacing them? And why not with new Nortels? Is it due to the pricing? ie. a 2510-48G comes in at about £900 when the Nortel equivalent comes in at £3.5k?

[CyberNerd]

Why are you replacing them? And why not with new Nortels? Is it due to the pricing? ie. a 2510-48G comes in at about £900 when the Nortel equivalent comes in at £3.5k?

 

The Nortel 5510's have nearly double the switching capacity of the procurve 2510-G's, and they can stack @80GB/s. THey probably have a whole bunch more features as well. There not really equivalent switches.

[SYNACK]

My question is, in your opinion(s), would 1gbit be worthy of a primary school?

 

Yes, all of my primaries run Gig to the edge switching and it does make a large difference with logon times (for the better).

 

Just make sure your existing servers have the throughput to keep up, if they are newer than 6-7 years old they should already have gig NICs in them, if not look to upgrade the NICs with server grade Gigabit ones as well. If they have more than one NIC each in them consider teaming them to allow for more bandwidth from the server to the clients, if not consider addin a dual port server grad NIC to up the avalible bandwidth in order to feed the clients data quicker.

[mjs_mjs]

Cisco SLM2048 Cisco Small Business 48 Port Gigabit Smart Switch - Misco.co.uk - £380, that what i was on about.

[localzuk]

The Nortel 5510's have nearly double the switching capacity of the procurve 2510-G's, and they can stack @80GB/s. THey probably have a whole bunch more features as well. There not really equivalent switches.

 

And that level of capabilities is needed in a school why?

[IanT]

And that level of capabilities is needed in a school why?

 

I agree asking the question "why", I've seen many people over the years spend so much on there Network Infrastructures within schools, I just cant see the need to try and get so much capacity when its never really going to get used to its full potential, but hey if people have money to burn in schools go for it.

[K.C.Leblanc]

I agree asking the question "why", I've seen many people over the years spend so much on there Network Infrastructures within schools, I just cant see the need to try and get so much capacity when its never really going to get used to its full potential, but hey if people have money to burn in schools go for it.

 

I agree, I know one local school who were able to buy a complete new cisco (proper cisco, not Linksys) backbone as part of a new build. My first thought was if they'd put in procurve there'd be enough money left over to refurbish ICT in another school.

 

I think procurve hits about the right spot. I don't see why any one would need anything more.

 

My previous school worked on a whatever was cheap scheme and it was a nightmare. I had to push the NM really hard to make him realise that although the unmanaged 100m/b D-Link at the core worked it needed replacing.

Edited September 28, 2010 by K.C.Leblanc

[nicholab]

For secondary I might go with a Cisco core 3750 stacked and HP on the edge. You need two HP 5400 for a redundant network. Edited September 28, 2010 by nicholab

[gshaw]

Another vote for ProCurves here, replaced our nasty cabling 2 years ago with 2610-24 and 2610-48s going back to a 5406zl, apart from some initial firmware issues (I'd recommend updating all to the newest firmware before they get put in the cab) they've been solid and the management is a breeze.

 

Still 100Mb to the desktop here with 1Gb links back per 24 ports, works fine for us for now then in a few years time the whole package of multi-Gb connections will have dropped down to 100Mb prices then we could phase in gradually over time... tbh when I look at the utilisation on PCM most ports aren't exactly hammering the network as is, only imaging and that gets one once a year via SCCM, set and forget

[CyberNerd]

And that level of capabilities is needed in a school why?

 

I suppose for the same reasons that some schools need any other kit ?

Why get cutting edge when 'ok' will do. same arguments, usually around future proofing etc.

[localzuk]

I suppose for the same reasons that some schools need any other kit ?

Why get cutting edge when 'ok' will do. same arguments, usually around future proofing etc.

 

There is future proofing, then there is buying blatantly over the top kit. If a school needs a new mini-bus, they don't buy a double decker luxury coach - they buy a minibus. If they need 5 new classrooms, they may build 6 or 7 but they wouldn't build 20...

[teejay]

The problem with 1Gb at the edge is that to utilise it fully you need 10Gb at the core and servers that can cope with serving files fast enough for the 10Gb links, which all gets expensive. There is a case for 'some' 1Gb at the edge for the more heavy duty machines, such as if the are doing video editing and dumping large files on the servers, or of course the NM's pc cough cough... Edited September 28, 2010 by teejay

[CyberNerd]

The problem with 1Gb at the edge is that to utilise it fully you need 10Gb at the core and servers that can cope with serving files fast enough for the 10Gb links, which all gets expensive. There is a case for 'some' 1Gb at the edge for the more heavy duty machines, such as if the are doing video editing and dumping large files on the servers, or of course the NM's pc cough cough...

 

Agreed. Thats what I've been trying to say for this entire thread.

 

There is future proofing, then there is buying blatantly over the top kit. If a school needs a new mini-bus, they don't buy a double decker luxury coach - they buy a minibus. If they need 5 new classrooms, they may build 6 or 7 but they wouldn't build 20...

 

How many 10GB/s modules do you get in those HP's ?

[teejay]

There are lots of 10GB options on the HP Procurve range all of which are very expensive. Its the kind of thing that really should be talked through with a specialist.

 

Yes and get it in writing, we had a situation where the manufacturer gave us incorrect verbal advice and wouldn't accept any responsibility when it didn't work. There are some very exotic connectors on some of the 10Gb stuff with some combination being impossible to get connector cables for.