PiqueABoo Posted July 8, 2010 Posted July 8, 2010 want to stay with an outdated OS for years to come. ::shrug:: You lock most of that OS away from prying hands - it's what the applications (or some dependency) will run on that count. It's officially alive until April 2014 and I reckon XP will remain do-able for perhaps a couple of years yet .. obviously subject to your licensing strategy, whether you're prepared to live with a smaller choice of new/replacement laptops (which I expect to have more XP driver[1] issues more quickly) and PCs. I imagine this summer is mostly about long-since committed money, I think the answer to the question will be more interesting in 6 months time re. plans for Summer 2011. [1] CC3 DOS floppy builds could be worked around if necessary.
Hightower Posted July 9, 2010 Author Posted July 9, 2010 I get the distinct feeling @Bossman: wants a job with RM. You'd make a great sales person sir! Made even easier when you actually love the product you're selling!
andyturpie Posted July 9, 2010 Posted July 9, 2010 We had our RM guy down the other day and it seems RM will use a VLK in future to extend the life of XP/CC3 Networks. All obviously down to the financial uncertainty of schools at the moment. The only down side is each machine or laptop will need a full rebuild and the hope that RM can keep using components that have xp drivers As for us I would love in 5 years time to have cut our servers down 50% with virtualisation on a CC4 network with all spankingly new machines on Win7
koryo Posted July 9, 2010 Posted July 9, 2010 This is probably a noobie question - but im going to ask it anyway as im curious what is a cc3/cc4 or vanilla network? i have not heard the terms before thanks!
andyturpie Posted July 9, 2010 Posted July 9, 2010 koryo vanilla is a pure windows server and client environment using active directory to manage and control various aspects cc3 and cc4 are community connect versions 3 and 4 which take the main services of AD give it a flashier GUI to allow someone whos not really up on MCSA or MCSE to perform network tasks ie a clued up ICT teacher etc.
irsprint84 Posted July 9, 2010 Posted July 9, 2010 koryo vanilla is a pure windows server and client environment using active directory to manage and control various aspects cc3 and cc4 are community connect versions 3 and 4 which take the main services of AD give it a flashier GUI to allow someone whos not really up on MCSA or MCSE to perform network tasks ie a clued up ICT teacher etc. This is abit flamebait I m a vanilla IT Manager and the manager I had previous had a CC$ network without MCSE's and could run rings round me plus I dont have MCSE's and I can run a vanilla network plus anyone and their dog can do a MCSE if they revised the book
Hightower Posted July 9, 2010 Author Posted July 9, 2010 This is abit flamebait I m a vanilla IT Manager and the manager I had previous had a CC$ network without MCSE's and could run rings round me plus I dont have MCSE's and I can run a vanilla network plus anyone and their dog can do a MCSE if they revised the book I don't think the poster meant it with those intentions though. Let's face it. CC3 was designed to allow schools easy management without an IT team many moons - that was its purpose. My old gaffa forgot more than I know now and he was managing a CC3 network. By using CC3 it allowed him (as it does so many others) to get on with more important tasks. Personally, the trouble I've had with our CC3 here since coming, it would have been easier to have a Vanilla network installed - but that was down to colleagues messing with things not to be messed with before I started.
andyturpie Posted July 9, 2010 Posted July 9, 2010 Not really iirsprint - I wasn't "dissing" either. Believe me, CC3 has been a god send since Advent took 6 grand off me promising a track through to MCSE and then disapearing up their own ass. CC just makes things easier to find.
andyturpie Posted July 9, 2010 Posted July 9, 2010 plus anyone and their dog can do a MCSE if they revised the book I could prove my dog is not capable of an MCSE
jsnetman Posted July 9, 2010 Posted July 9, 2010 I agree you don't need MS certs to run a vanilla network, those certs come in handy when applying for jobs mainly and not all that possess them have the relevant experience. Wish I had one though
Hightower Posted July 9, 2010 Author Posted July 9, 2010 Can you tell me what's actually wrong with XP in an educational environment? In a time when we are all facing budget cuts I fail to see the need to spend taxpayers money replacing or upgrading decent working computers just to support an OS which is all style (in order to compete with Apple) and no substance. There's nothing wrong with XP. You've got the wrong end of the stick. Naturally we still need to replace machines over time, and when that time comes next year all we will be able to get is machines with Windows 7. XP won't be available, it's as simple as that. It's not a case of wanting to jump, more a case of being shoved by Microsoft.
ajs Posted July 9, 2010 Posted July 9, 2010 There's nothing wrong with XP. You've got the wrong end of the stick. Naturally we still need to replace machines over time, and when that time comes next year all we will be able to get is machines with Windows 7. XP won't be available, it's as simple as that. It's not a case of wanting to jump, more a case of being shoved by Microsoft. One way RM (and potentially other companies) could do it, is by selling a volume license of Windows 7 with every machine, and exercising the downgrade rights that come with that, but I imagine they won't do that without bumping up the cost of the machines (which in RM's case, isn't that cheap to start with). Make everyone move to Linux. That'll save money
Hightower Posted July 9, 2010 Author Posted July 9, 2010 Make everyone move to Linux. That'll save money But will it? We moved our email from LA to internal using Zimbra. Great, it's free. Until you have to pull out money for the server and manage the system. Our solution is much more stable now, but it wasn't cheaper. I'd imagine the same with Linux clients - it would take additional training for most schools, extra setup, and extra training for staff/students. By the end of that it may be cheaper to stick with Windows.
ajs Posted July 9, 2010 Posted July 9, 2010 But will it? We moved our email from LA to internal using Zimbra. Great, it's free. Until you have to pull out money for the server and manage the system. Our solution is much more stable now, but it wasn't cheaper. I'd imagine the same with Linux clients - it would take additional training for most schools, extra setup, and extra training for staff/students. By the end of that it may be cheaper to stick with Windows. Sorry, picked the wrong emoticon! (Wasn't actually that serious) Despite being someone who uses Linux as much as possible, I wouldn't suggest using it in an education environment without putting in a lot of planning and thought beforehand. Even then I wouldn't expect to actually realise the benefits for a few years given how much training/extra hands-on work would be involved behind the scenes.
ajs Posted July 14, 2010 Posted July 14, 2010 Slightly good news announced yesterday: http://www.edugeek.net/forums/news/59714-microsoft-extends-windows-xp-oem-downgrade-rights-until-2020-a.html
Hightower Posted July 14, 2010 Author Posted July 14, 2010 Slightly good news announced yesterday: http://www.edugeek.net/forums/news/59714-microsoft-extends-windows-xp-oem-downgrade-rights-until-2020-a.html Yeah - saw that this morning. RM may have been saved........ but then again, it may not! lol
IMDavies Posted July 29, 2010 Posted July 29, 2010 Our CC3 network was running for almost 10 years with very few problems. So I'm opting for CC4
Norphy Posted July 29, 2010 Posted July 29, 2010 There's something of a debate going on at my place about this at the moment. It's clear that we can't stick with XP and CC3 for ever. CC3 is getting frustratingly unstable for us and I don't think that it helps that every time the DCs are migrated onto new hardware, RM don't build new servers but just image them across onto new hardware. New hardware support for XP will probably only last a couple of years from here as well. The senior engineer in my team and I both want to move away from Community Connect but our manager would prefer to go with CC4 once we start the migration away from CC3. There are probably going to be many arguments in the next year while we try to decide!
Andrew_Sharrad Posted August 4, 2010 Posted August 4, 2010 Lots of people buy machines from other OEMs (such as Stone, Dell) and have no trouble smartbuilding them onto the network. Having said that, it can be a PITA to get all the necessary drivers and this will undoubtedly become more and more difficult over time. If it weren't for the cost (of upgrading and, particularly for the smaller primary schools, the cost of IT support) then I'd certainly try and push a few of my schools into moving away from CC3 (whether it be to CC4 or Vanilla). Just to offer help for those that are on CC3 with Stone hardware - I can help with searching for drivers and automating the installation of all drivers during the build process, so you dont have to add video/sound etc. drivers afterwards. Sorry if this a little off topic, just trying to help out if anyone is stuck
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