BSF - Would it be ok without the ICT Contract?

[GrumbleDook]

Do you feel that we need to have more options open to schools about what they do under BSF?

[kingswood]

Given the huge incentive coming from business for BSF ICT investment in schools Tony, do you really think that most schools would *want* choice? In other words, when the government come along and offer millions in ICT investment and rebuilding, most Heads would snap their hands off because their business is education and BSF is stellar for promoting a better learning environment and more investment in that. ICT support staff and choice in ICT provision are low on the list when it comes to new builds. Believe me.

[broc]

I am sure many schools are very happy for the prospect of BSF ICT funding, but I suspect almost all are also very unhappy with the conditions being imposed (e.g. Managed ICT Services).

 

Don't under-estimate the HT. They want control of everything that goes on in their schools, I believe part of the reason for delays to the early waves of BSF is due to LAs and Schools trying to argue against Managed ICT Services, admittedly so far without much success.

 

However, sooner or later something has to give, & there is now focus from No 10 looking at the delays to BSF & maybe Partnership for Schools will have to give some ground too.

[Kyle]

Does BSF affect Foundation/Trust schools?

[broc]

Does BSF affect Foundation/Trust schools?

 

Not sure; I once asked a Partnership for Schools consultant that question, and got a stony silence in reply. I suspect they hadn't written that part of the 'rules'' book then.

 

My instinct would be to say that if a foundation/trust school wanted BSF ICT funding they would have to play by P4S rules, however if a school were to decide to become a trust/foundation school after taking the BSF ICT money they might be able to withdraw fom the contract, but it would depend upon the T&C in the contract.

[Ric_]

I think, ideally, a half-way solution would be better. A scenario where the schools could opt into a managed service and possibly some kind of procurement system that allows the cost savings to still be had.

 

Of course, schools should have to meet a minimum specification but after that they should be allowed to innovate as they see fit. Maybe with Ofsted-style inspections of ICT development and use.

[beeswax]

Does BSF affect Foundation/Trust schools?

 

I can only tell you what I was told at a meeting at my daughter's Foundation school, where as part of the BSF deal the council is planning to close several 6th forms, and create one central 6th form college. When I pointed out that foundation school funding doesn't come from the council, I was told quite bluntly that the government would stop that part of the funding covering the (Foundation) 6th form.

Now, I've been told, by some members on these forums, that 6th form funding comes from a different "pot", and that stopping funding might be a little more difficult than the council employees said at the meeting. It was just the finality with which they said it that made me feel as if this /objectionroute had been thoroughly explore.

[beeswax]

I seem to have lost the ability to edit my posts. I meant to say "objection/route", and the final word should read "explored".

It is a little anal, I know, but I come from a generation who like to see a sharp crease in their trousers and a well ironed...(continued page94)

[beeswax]

the Edit button seems to be missing

[webman]

Started a new thread for the Edit problem.

[GrumbleDook]

Fixed ... please continue the debate.

[alonebfg]

i was talking to my partner and she told me it is exctly what happenes was not called bsf but when i told her about it she said it what they did with nhs ict and all the other departments ect ect and she told me they had nothing but problems and in the end the changed it all back to what it was befor but not befor having ie intergration of depatments. it the goverments wayf trying to save money and it keeps proving again and again it does not work why do the not listen.

[asynchro]

The question that should be asked is why BSF insists on a managed service yet Academy's aren't required to have one.

 

Academy's have the choice of how they run their ICT, and each one can be procured seperately as a standalone solution, they can employ their own technicians but they still get the money for the kit! Two-tier system if you ask me!

 

Since Partnerships for Schools run both BSF and Academy's programmes, why is there this disparity? What's good for the goose ... (thought I'd add a Christmas reference!).

[psydii]

The answer to this depends on the individual school.

 

For us, we'd have been better off with the money and a couple of the consultants. But who is to say in that scenario we'd have got the consultants of that calibre?

 

Another nearby school seems to be of the attitude that they are simply working in the facilities provided, and it is for the authority to decide on capital programmes with a long legacy.

 

Swings and roundabouts..

[bossman]

Having debated the BSF on this forum for nearly a year has anyone got any positive feedback of how well the BSF schools throughout the country have done.

Having spoken to certain individuals from various positions on BSF there doesn't seem to be any real information out there except for the negative info which keeps cropping up.

Has any Government IT initiative ever worked out? Take the NHS for instance?

Looks to me that events are to take a turn whether it be the Tories or Labour on capital spend!

Has anyone got anything else to add? (Tony?)

[sparkeh]

I agree with Ric_'s way of thinking, there should be an option to take the managed service or not.

Some school are probably going to benefit from a managed service but there those that will probably lose out, but the option should be there.

 

If you decide not to take the service, you should have to prove that you are meeting the required standard.

[webman]

If you decide not to take the service, you should have to prove that you are meeting the required standard.

 

No good. They will make the "required standard" impossible for schools to pass on their own, and managed services will pass automatically.

[GrumbleDook]

Having debated the BSF on this forum for nearly a year has anyone got any positive feedback of how well the BSF schools throughout the country have done.

Having spoken to certain individuals from various positions on BSF there doesn't seem to be any real information out there except for the negative info which keeps cropping up.

Has any Government IT initiative ever worked out? Take the NHS for instance?

Looks to me that events are to take a turn whether it be the Tories or Labour on capital spend!

Has anyone got anything else to add? (Tony?)

 

I have been asking, but only to feed back internally within Northants. I am on a low profile on some of the BSF front atm but when I come across public information I will share it. The closest we have so far is the feedback about Bristol that was part of the NAACE work. NAACE materials.

 

If someone would like to take on the mantle of EG contact with P4S and the various companies I can give you the contact details and introduce you, but be warned that you will get embroiled in politics with your LA (depending on how close you are to BSF) and I would suggest backing from your Head. Remember that impartiality is required to some extent and looking after *all* interests is important.

[GrumbleDook]

No good. They will make the "required standard" impossible for schools to pass on their own, and managed services will pass automatically.

 

You also need to make sure who 'they' are. You have to be careful to make sure that 'they' could mean the LA, the LEP or just the IT MSP.

 

The whole BSF thing is meant to be about the needs of the school and the LA workign with schools on the strategy for change. If the school is not involved in this then things will get missed and decisions will be made that could have an adverse affect on the future direction of the school, not just for IT. Even if you are involved, if you are one school saying you want something different then it is hard to make that felt. *All* schools need to be represented and to have input ... and this is often where things fall down.

 

The BSF bidders will only put forward solutions based what has been requested ... what gets requested is sometimes insufficiently specified. Unfortunately, due to the competitive nature of the tenders it is hard to see what other LAs have done and the best you can get out of the bidding companies is that each bid is different and is based around what is put forward.

[sparkeh]

No good. They will make the "required standard" impossible for schools to pass on their own, and managed services will pass automatically.

Ok, but I was talking about what I believe should happen, not what the reality is likely to be. If we were doing that you might as well point out that this thread is pointless as this is doesn't appear that this is going to happen anyway.

 

But of course discussion isn't pointless

[webman]

You also need to make sure who 'they' are. You have to be careful to make sure that 'they' could mean the LA, the LEP or just the IT MSP.

 

All of the above. It's a conspiracy!

[Butuz]

"Yes - give us a chance to show we can do it and let us continue innovating!"

 

Show?? Most of us have been doing it for years. Take a few minutes to think where ICT would be in schools without "us" over the last 10 years?

 

Of course, some schools (I've been to some and it's not pretty) have suffered with really bad tech support (or none) but lets face it, surely this is actually down to poor decisions by SMT/Govenors is it not? After all, if you employ a totally imcompetant Network Manager (or none) you can expect an incompetant network!

 

BSF isn't hitting me yet as I am in Wales - but from what I can see I honestly think we could do better than BSF if we were given the same money that BSF is throwing around. If 10% of a BSF spend is ICT - I can only dream of having 10% of our anual turnover to spend on ICT. Instead - this year I have had roughly 0.9% of our anual turnover.

 

If i had 10% per year over the next 5 years ICT in this school would be a whole different ball game.

 

Butuz

[CyberNerd]

"

If i had 10% per year over the next 5 years ICT in this school would be a whole different ball game.

 

 

Absolutely!

Unfortunately the school doesn't get the money because most of it goes to RM's shareholders.