Managing costs and moving to *nix

[localzuk]

I've just had a meeting with my boss outlining this years MS licensing costs, coming to around £8k for our 250 machines + servers. Put simply, this amounts to around the same money as paying the salary of a TA.

 

So, I've been asked to come up with ideas for reducing it and making life more sustainable for us.

 

My ideas are split into a few groups.

 

1. Switch all machines in school to linux, except for a small citrix farm for running SIMS.net, and other software like that. We already have Citrix licenses.

2. Switch only classroom workstations to linux, leaving teacher laptops as Windows machines, and leaving our admin machines as citrix thin clients.

 

Now, in terms of cost, option 1 is obviously the cheapest in terms of costs of licenses, but will be a major project, and be a bit of a learning curve using Linux on such a widescale.

 

Next is the question of servers. We currently run a windows 2003 server farm, with IAS, ISA, WSUS, AD, DNS, DHCP etc... Obviously, some of this could move to linux based servers (DNS, DHCP, ISA -> Smoothwall, IAS -> FreeRadius, fileserver etc...). The question is, what is the best way to manage a linux client system and maintain a windows thin client server system also?

 

So, any thoughts, ideas etc...?

[danrhodes]

Tell your boss to live with it and find the money, M$ licences are standard everywhere and are part of running ICT. Going to be one hell of a project / learning curve if you expect all staff and pupils to leanr a new O/S and programs!

 

D

[localzuk]

Tell your boss to live with it and find the money, M$ licences are standard everywhere and are part of running ICT. Going to be one hell of a project / learning curve if you expect all staff and pupils to leanre a new O/S and programs!

 

D

 

Not an option. We have dropping pupil numbers, and are looking at redundancies. We can't just say 'we're going to spend thousands on ICT, but staff, they can go'.

[danrhodes]

Still I think you may find it hard to get the chance ok'd at a higher level, people just don't like such drastic changes, even if the outcome would be cheaper.

[featured_spectre]

speak with your boss and see if you can reduce the amount of PCs used. Taking an ICT class out of action for example should save ~£1000.

[danrhodes]

Seems to be a trend everywhere - BBC NEWS | Technology | Russian schools move to Linux

 

The article is from a while ago but highlights a few good points!

 

D

[localzuk]

Still I think you may find it hard to get the chance ok'd at a higher level, people just don't like such drastic changes, even if the outcome would be cheaper.

 

The person who has initiated this is the Bursar - what she says goes most of the time...

[SteveBentley]

As a halfway house - keep Windows but replace MS Office with Open Office?

 

If you do go fully down the linux route, you may need to factor in training for yourself and your team in administering it, and perhaps some external consultancy to be on standby as you probably won't be able to call on the LEA for help should the brown stuff be hitting the fan and you find yourself out of your depth. Not suggesting that you'd ever need to use it, but if you have that back up from the LEA now you need to budget for an equivalent.

Edited June 9, 2010 by SteveBentley

[localzuk]

Just to say - this isn't a request for options such as 'carry on as normal' or 'reduce the number of physical machines'. It is asking for advice from schools who have already done such a thing, using linux around their schools etc...

[localzuk]

As a halfway house - keep Windows but replace MS Office with Open Office?

 

That'd only save a small amount, as we'd end up having to buy Office licenses for the admin and staff machines anyway (for use with SIMS.net).

[DrCheese]

Harsh as it sounds, the cost of one TA is worth it. Such a massive and overwhelming change is not worth saving £8k which is chump change in the scheme of things.

 

The aggro and hours wasted on retraining/dealing with new issues will cost a ton more. Losing one TA would affect only a few people, changing to an entirely new system would affect everyone massively. If it was simple, everyone would have done it years ago instead of laying off staff.

Edited June 9, 2010 by DrCheese

[localzuk]

Harsh as it sounds, the cost of one TA is worth it. Such a massive and overwhelming change is not worth saving £8k which is chump change in the scheme of things.

 

The aggro and hours wasted on retraining/dealing with new issues will cost a ton more. Losing one TA would affect only a few people, changing to an entirely new system would affect everyone massively.

 

Sorry but this is not helpful. I don't want to hear that we're 'stuck' with windows. I want to hear any tips from people with Linux in their schools already. There are plenty on here!

[DrCheese]

Sorry but this is not helpful. I don't want to hear that we're 'stuck' with windows. I want to hear any tips from people with Linux in their schools already. There are plenty on here!

 

I'm afraid it is, you seem to just be rushing to deploy Linux without actually realising the non obvious cost of doing so. I'm sure you can find a ton of advise on how to deal with the change but at the end of the day there is no way moving to Linux is going to save you £8k. If anything, it will end up costing you more. It simply isn't worth it

Sorry if it isn't what you want to hear, but I won't sugar coat it.

Edited June 9, 2010 by DrCheese

[localzuk]

I'm afraid it is, you seem to just be rushing to deploy Linux without actually realising the non obvious cost of doing so. As a taxpayer I have a right to be concerned. Sorry.

 

How does it help? I've been told 'reduce licensing costs, look at free OS's, changing clients will be required and teachers will have to learn to live with change - we can't afford the large cost of licensing any more'. Telling me the equivalent of 'sack a TA' is not helping me.

 

To expand on the 'non obvious cost'. I know full well that a major change will mean needing to provide training to staff, that some software will no longer function etc... It will also mean longer lives for PC's, less server power needed, less licensing costs, and a generally lower TCO.

[danrhodes]

Agreed this does seem like a rather snap desicion on your Bursars side, maybe one to get them out of the red quickly, who knows.

 

I do agree that although it sounds harsh, the removal of one 8k TA to save the hassle of a very large change over that would affect the school for many years to come seems a little obscure!

 

IMO, they have asked you to look at licensing, why not go back to them with a different / better solution that would have less of a knock on, finding better solutions is our job is it not?

 

Edit - Given your last post localz, you have it in your head that the option they have provided is the only way, if it we're me I would be protesting the change with everything I have.

 

D

Edited June 9, 2010 by danrhodes

[maark]

can't give you linux advice - would be interested in hearing from a completely linux school.

However - £8000 is not cost of a TA - they cost more than that when you add in national insurance contributions from school etc.

Half your cost probably is office - you would only need MS office on your terminal servers to run sims.

How much is a stable system worth to your school - if IT goes down most schools cease to function now so be very careful in changing.

[dwhyte85]

None of your machines came with OEM licensing?

 

It'd be a pain but if any came with OEM XP licensing/Vista business (downgrade) or even Home at a push and some shell for logging in... and buying yourself a few more cals... it's better than losing the functioning of the schools IT because of the steep learning curve.

Edited June 9, 2010 by dwhyte85

[localzuk]

It is in no way a snap decision! We've been discussing the ever increasing licensing costs for the last 3 years, each year saying that linux is an option, this is just the first year she has said 'go out and research it fully'.

 

Other than reducing ICT provision (not an option either, the head has nixed this before), sacking a TA, changing the office system only etc... what do people suggest? All of these solutions still lead to a bill from Microsoft to license stuff continually...

[localzuk]

None of your machines came with OEM licensing?

 

XP home, like many schools who got themselves into the never-ending schools agreement cycle.

[dwhyte85]

XP home, like many schools who got themselves into the never-ending schools agreement cycle.

 

CALS and a front end to 'login' or effectively just map drives?

[danrhodes]

XP home, like many schools who got themselves into the never-ending schools agreement cycle.

 

As I've said before M$ licencing is a drain on a schools funs everybody understands that, for our its something like £30k, but it is something that has to be budgeted for if you are wanting to run a M$ network. If it's not been budgeted for, then what has your finance team been doing wrong?

 

D

[localzuk]

CALS and a front end to 'login' or effectively just map drives?

 

Define 'front end'. Also, OEM means 'no volume install', meaning no imaging, and having to keep track of 250 OEM keys - some of which will be long gone from their labels which the kids love to peel off.

[danrhodes]

Define 'front end'. Also, OEM means 'no volume install', meaning no imaging, and having to keep track of 250 OEM keys - some of which will be long gone from their labels which the kids love to peel off.

 

Exactly OEM is no good for school or business its just not practical to have to use a certain disk and key on a ertain PC, it would be a logisital nightmare!

[localzuk]

As I've said before M$ licencing is a drain on a schools funs everybody understands that, for our its something like £30k, but it is something that has to be budgeted for if you are wanting to run a M$ network. If it's not been budgeted for, then what has your finance team been doing wrong?

 

Keeping the school running with a dropping roll, and trying to not sack people (like they're supposed to)...?

[danrhodes]

Keeping the school running with a dropping roll, and trying to not sack people (like they're supposed to)...?

 

What's more important, the smooth running of a school built upon a state of the art network that integrates many management tools within its ICT or the sacking of a few TA's (or other staff) when teachers should be able to teach anyway without the help of assistants, assistants were never included when they were at uni I can imagine!

 

Or cut ICT and go to *nix and face the possibility of if it ever goes wrong the school being in the deep brown, and having to go back to M$ anyway!?