Anyone Using Frog?

[duncane]

Do you have to use year of entry in usernames? We don't at present. If you do, and it has the limitation you describe, that would cause us an absolute nightmare as our students join at all sorts of stages, right from Nursery to Year 12.

 

This relates to the automated mapping of students in SIMS to users in Frog. Frog creates a username which can be composed of a number of different elements from SIMS - including the admission year (but, like clareq says, not the year that they would have been in if they'd been admitted in Year 7). If your particular naming scheme can't be constructed using the elements they have available, you'll need to change them manually (or semi-automatically by exporting, changing and re-importing on masse). We have to go this route - but we have relatively small year groups.

[dsm]

This relates to the automated mapping of students in SIMS to users in Frog. Frog creates a username which can be composed of a number of different elements from SIMS - including the admission year (but, like clareq says, not the year that they would have been in if they'd been admitted in Year 7). If your particular naming scheme can't be constructed using the elements they have available, you'll need to change them manually (or semi-automatically by exporting, changing and re-importing on masse). We have to go this route - but we have relatively small year groups.

 

Not to worry, we use year of entry in our usernames too. We've created a simple spreadsheet to export the data from from, change it automatically and then import it straight back in. It only takes around 10 minutes to do the year group at the year of entry i.e. once per year group.

 

Regards

[enjay]

This relates to the automated mapping of students in SIMS to users in Frog. Frog creates a username which can be composed of a number of different elements from SIMS - including the admission year (but, like clareq says, not the year that they would have been in if they'd been admitted in Year 7).

 

Our usernames at present are surname and first two letters, e.g. bloggsfr, with no reference to year group or year of entry. Within the Active Directory, we group them by Year 7 entry, including our Primary pupils based on the year in which they will be in Year 7. Would this format cause us problems within Frog?

[dsm]

You can create usernames based on any criteria you want within Frog.

[Jamo]

We have managed to get staff to use Fronter in the end. A bit of pushing is what is required. We are using it for revision mostly and more as a document storage facility than its primary purpose. I have created pages for all the subjects using templates and then they are just managing a tree of folders like explorer in windows. Not pretty or ideal but it works well for our requirements and considering its free its not too bad.

 

There are definiately better solutions in terms of real VLE integration with schools, Moodle provides a much more solid VLE platform and has some really useful features but all of them require significant staff time to implement well. I would always first ask staff what they want from the VLE, ours wanted simple, and simple they got

[clareq]

In reply to those who asked about our usernames - we have over 2000 students, Y7 to Y13. First, using the Year of entry into Y7 cuts down on duplicate usernames (We use Year of entry into Y7 Surname First initial, and the number of families who like their children to all have the same initial is huge!) and possibly more important, we need to be able to tell by looking at the username what year the user is in - if only to prevent the use of sibling usernames to bypass Internet filtering, as sixth form have a different filtering level to Y7. I do import a csv at the beginning of the year, but it seems to overwrite students randomly when the SIMS import is run daily for attendance data. We have at least one new student every week, and having to go into frog to set them up there as well as in AD is an annoying extra step. I've open calls with frog every year, and all I get is the instructions on how to run a csv!

All I want to resolve it is, rather than grouping all students together as "students" with one template, allow me to create a template for each year group. That way I can use a text field for the "year of entry into Y7" part of the username, and I can set the path to the userarea, rather than having to do that by csv as well. All new students would be automatically enrolled in frog from SIMS, and I would just have to change the text field for each group once a year.

[mthomas08]

Sorry to bring this thread back to the front but were any of these issues fixed?

 

I noticed this post is some months old!

 

We are looking at frog and really want it by April, have a gov meeting in 2 weeks to persuade them. At the moment we have Year7 on the year they started then username so 06BobsYourUncle but yr12+ are BobsY. So does that mean I will have to alter their usernames? does sims still do some kind of over write? we are aiming to pretty much go for everything. Secure/Parent gateway etc, we have AD for the link and really hope to have little issues.

[themightymrp]

@mthomas08 - we have only recently had our Frog server installed and we are still setting up the initial user account creation. However the issues mentioned in this thread with regards usernames have NOT been fixed yet!

 

We use CMIS instead of SIMS and the automatic export creates its usernames for Frog based upon the data it finds. Unfortunately we don't have a standardised format for student usernames in the AD A lot of the usernames it generates don't match with what we have. For example, ALL of our student accounts start with year of entry (eg Year 7 starts 10, Year 8 starts 09 etc) but then we have a mixture of either first 4 letters of the surname followed by first initial OR full surname and first initial. The format was changed a couple of years ago to try to cut down on duplicate usernames. However we still have the problem where 2 accounts might be the same and so one account will use 2 letters from the forename! Such as 09SmithJa and 09SmithJ.

 

Frog support don't have an answer for us, just to do the export and edit routine. Why can't it pull usernames straight from the AD??!!!! It also seems to have a limit of 10 characters from the surname which is a bit of a git when you have some double barrelled names.

 

It looks like we may have to go down the export, edit, import routine as mentioned above. It would be nice to be able to have different rules per yeargroup as that would mean there would only be a handful to manually change. I'm worried that the auto export tool will overwrite accounts though or worse add extra accounts into the list giving 2 per user!!

 

So far, not too impressed

[oxide54]

we're not, but all you could see round kensington today was people with frog goodie bags!

[mthomas08]

I am going to ask around to our local Frog schools to see how they got through it, I would rather not add to my manual daily routine. Main reason why I have time on my hands is because I get rid of these routines and get things permanently working (although things still go wrong).

 

As for Frog BETT, I will be one of those goody bag people, I already have a collection and it will be good as onsite promoting and getting the attention of students to have the goodies

[frogdude]

Frog support don't have an answer for us, just to do the export and edit routine. Why can't it pull usernames straight from the AD??!!!! It also seems to have a limit of 10 characters from the surname which is a bit of a git when you have some double barrelled names.

 

When you create your users in AD do you import directly from your MIS? If so, and you have included your pupils UID/UPN number?

 

You can use a CSV import to correct your usernames by exporting a CSV from your Active Directory that includes the usernames and UID's/UPN's of the students then importing that into Frog in one go.

 

The problem you have is that you have an inconsistent naming format, and it is not possible to configure your Frogserver for every eventuality.

 

Regarding the surname lengths, I have seen many longer than 10 characters, your import settings are probably configured to only take the first 10 characters of the surname - you can change this in your toolkit.

 

I can confirm that the auto extractor will NOT change your usernames or create duplicate users. When the import is done it matches the UPN/UID of the child to ones that are already in Frog - other data (such as names / addresses etc) will change if the data in your MIS changes, but usernames never will.

 

The only way that duplicate users can be created is if you do an CSV import and do not include the UPN of the pupils, or by adding duplicate pupils into your MIS.

 

Hope this helps!

[clareq]

If anyone else can see a use for managing year groups separately, please log onto the frog community and vote for the suggestion I put on there a little while ago. Apparently, so Frog tell me, every other school have all their users on one server, and so there is no need to manage year groups separately! Edited February 21, 2011 by clareq
spelling

[MicrodigitUK]

If anyone else can see a use for managing year groups separately, please log onto the frog community and vote for the suggestion I put on there a little while ago. Apparently, so Frog tell me, every other school have all their users on one server, and so there is no need to manage year groups separately!

 

How would Frog know they haven’t asked anyone!! I had this problem when we got Frog as we split year groups over different servers and it’s such a pain to export to CSV update the year group UNC paths and then re-import. Asked installer at the time and he told me that’s just the way it is…

 

I know one other local school with the same problem. Will point them to your Frog community suggestion so we can vote it up.

[MicrodigitUK]

@clareq what is your Ideas name/heading as I cant find it!!!

[clareq]

It is "Edit student details" but if you search on multi (as in multi server) it is the first returned result. Thanks to those who are voting - it's had 3 since I posted.

[garkunkel]

I considered Frog a while back but was worried about it needing to be hosted in the school. Having a bunch of servers with data split over them seemed weird to me and I couldn't get my head round why it wasn't set up either as a monster server or, better still, a hosted arrangement. that way I don't need hardware, don;t have to worry about updates and I can probably find a system that can cope with small and massive schools alike. The thing I also considered was physical and logical security with additional hardware and data split over several machines in a school. Unless I got the messages wrong at BETT, I felt I needed something more contained.

 

And, as for having to faff about with CSV files - forget it - I;d be looking for it all to come from AD!

 

Admins in school have enough on their plates without having to export and upload date as well! I liked the systems at BETT which supported full integration with SIMS and CMIS so the school admin staff are completely hands off.

[john316]

Multiple servers? The install is a single server and usernames can be automatically created via your MIS connection. It depends what your username set up is in your school. We did ours initially via the MIS import and then used CSVs files to just overwrite the data with the correct usernames. You only do that once and I simply amend new pupils who are imported from our MIS into FROG with the appropriate username. It takes very little time and depending your setup, it may take no extra time at all.

[clareq]

Yes, frog is a single server, but with 2000 students, with user areas split over 3 servers too many user names are incorrect for us to be able to keep on top of, coupled with everything else that has to be kept on top of! Surely a service like a VLE should fit in with what we have and works, not force us to alter our systems so we can use a VLE?

[frogdude]

Yes, frog is a single server, but with 2000 students, with user areas split over 3 servers too many user names are incorrect for us to be able to keep on top of, coupled with everything else that has to be kept on top of! Surely a service like a VLE should fit in with what we have and works, not force us to alter our systems so we can use a VLE?

 

When you say that you have users split over three servers, do you mean that you have 3 domains? Or one domain, but with the storage for their "Home Drives" spread over three servers? You shouldn't have to alter your system in order to get Frog to work, as long as you can tell it what the usernames are and they are all on the same logical domain.

 

Frog can only authenticate with one domain for username and password authentication, but can look at any server in the same domain for access to their files. You mentioned that you don't have a standard naming convention for usernames and locations. If this is the case, how do you create your users every year? If you can do an export from AD that contains the users path to the home drive that you want to use in Frog and their UPN number (as in your MIS system) and usernames then you could use one CSV import to correct all the data in about 5 minutes flat.

 

You would only have to do this once a year when your new users started.

 

If I have understood your setup correctly

[MicrodigitUK]

I think what clareq is referring to is storage for their "Home Drives" spread over three servers. This is common practise especially in a RM CC3/CC4 network. The Home drives are normally split down into year group for server load balancing. So Server1: Year 7, 8 and staff. Server2: Year 9, 10 and 11. Server3: Year 12 and 13.

 

I strongly agree with clareq that this functionality is sadly lacking in Frog user import and the only workaround is a CSV or manually change each user that comes to you.

 

I have a third party AD SIMS import tool that has this functionality and creates the users "Home Drives" in Active Directory on the correct server (when the student starts) based on year group. This like Frog is an overnight import from SIMS. So why can’t Frog be a bit more flexible to soot a common school scenario.

 

If you can do an export from AD that contains the users path to the home drive that you want to use in Frog and their UPN number (as in your MIS system) and usernames then you could use one CSV import to correct all the data in about 5 minutes flat.

 

You would only have to do this once a year when your new users started.

 

You do have to do it a lot more than once a year. What about starters during the academic year? That 5 minutes flat than starts to add up. Also how often do Network admins get passed the information that you have a new starter/s. I can tell you almost never.....

 

Frog automatic user imports from SIMS start to look a little less automatic!!

Edited February 22, 2011 by MicrodigitUK

[garkunkel]

I don;t want to assume that the bulk of the contributors to this discussion are technical, but I wonder what school administrators think of this issue. Me, I'm not too clever on technical (I pick up on conversations, do some reading and then try and add my bit!) and so that's why I prefer to avoid systems that look like hard work in administration of the basics (like setting up users, which I would suggest ought to be a simple and automated task). Anyway, I can't say I have been instilled with confidence with this Frog situation - chiefly as it seems some are getting little in terms of response to their problems! Hope I'm wrong!

[frogdude]

I think what clareq is referring to is storage for their "Home Drives" spread over three servers. This is common practise especially in a RM CC3/CC4 network. The Home drives are normally split down into year group for server load balancing. So Server1: Year 7, 8 and staff. Server2: Year 9, 10 and 11. Server3: Year 12 and 13.

 

I strongly agree with clareq that this functionality is sadly lacking in Frog user import and the only workaround is a CSV or manually change each user that comes to you.

 

I have a third party AD SIMS import tool that has this functionality and creates the users "Home Drives" in Active Directory on the correct server (when the student starts) based on year group. This like Frog is an overnight import from SIMS. So why can’t Frog be a bit more flexible to soot a common school scenario.

!

 

I see your point regarding this issue - Frog takes the user information from your MIS, but does not create the network paths automatically - this is something that you can do with a CSV import/export. I think what you are suggesting is to be able to select all users from an MIS year and say "Use this path '//server/share/%username%/My Documents' as their home drives, rather than the added step of the export import.

 

You do have to do it a lot more than once a year. What about starters during the academic year? That 5 minutes flat than starts to add up. Also how often do Network admins get passed the information that you have a new starter/s. I can tell you almost never.....

 

How many additional users join in a year? Network admin's must be told at some point otherwise they would never have network accounts created for them!

 

that's why I prefer to avoid systems that look like hard work in administration of the basics (like setting up users, which I would suggest ought to be a simple and automated task

 

In my opinion it is a very simple process. The Frog Extractor is installed on your MIS server, it pulls the data out on a nightly schedule - imports that into Frog which create the user-names based on a very customisable set of rules. The users are automatically linked to their AD accounts and can then login without any intervention from you. You can then add their home drives at any time, either with a CSV for bulk or one at a time for a couple for example.

 

I think that any system, such as a network or VLE is going to require some amount of administration, this is unavoidable. The people at Frog do their best to minimise this whilst catering for all system types. Don't forget that it is a constantly evolving product and things are always improving

 

 

 

Lastly:

Anyway, I can't say I have been instilled with confidence with this Frog situation - chiefly as it seems some are getting little in terms of response to their problems! Hope I'm wrong!

 

I tend to find that people are very quick to condemn, and slow to thank - people are more likely to want to post a rant rather than something positive, so I hope that such cases would be a tiny minority.

 

Phew, sorry about the long post!

[edsa]

We are just about to implement Frog at our school, but we are also looking at email systems. Is anyone using the Frog email system either for Staff of Students?

 

cheers

 

Ed

[clareq]

I see your point regarding this issue - Frog takes the user information from your MIS, but does not create the network paths automatically - this is something that you can do with a CSV import/export. I think what you are suggesting is to be able to select all users from an MIS year and say "Use this path '//server/share/%username%/My Documents' as their home drives, rather than the added step of the export import.

 

Frog does claim to do this automatically - there is an option in the location where you set username format to automate home drive location. However, I can only put details in for one server.

 

How many additional users join in a year? Network admin's must be told at some point otherwise they would never have network accounts created for them!

 

Two or three a week - we are told by having them wander into our room with "I'm new I need to log on" We then need to drop whatever we are doing to add them. Sometimes they have beaten Admin, and they are not yet in SIMS, so we can't just edit the data already in Frog.

 

In my opinion it is a very simple process. The Frog Extractor is installed on your MIS server, it pulls the data out on a nightly schedule - imports that into Frog which create the user-names based on a very customisable set of rules. The users are automatically linked to their AD accounts and can then login without any intervention from you. You can then add their home drives at any time, either with a CSV for bulk or one at a time for a couple for example.

 

Not customisable enough, obviously, else we wouldn't be complaining! We do have to intervene, far to often!

Edited March 4, 2011 by clareq

[john316]

We use the FROG email as a separate sand boxed email system for staff and students - the staff still have their regular separate Exchange accounts but use the FROG email to contact pupils. Our pupils don't have 'proper' email accounts so the FROG email system works great for them.