Some Facts (Not Rumours) Required Regarding RM, Northgate and Redstone

[Deaks]

Being a school technician in Hackney myself, I'd love to know where your getting this information from and how upto date it is, as :

 

All contact I've had from RM, and also my collegues here, has been that school technicians will be TUPED over.

 

I don't know if that also applies to the LEA technicians, maybe it's that the aplying for RM pool jobs might apply to them, which would make a fair ammount of sense as they would not be part of the school personael infrustructure.

 

In many areas the LEAs would have also been a rival bidder, so there may, in some circumstances, be a bit of PR spin involved, hoping to influences the outcome.

 

Personally I'd rather be TUPED to RM, who come out well in polls on how companies treat their staff, than to a LEA setup bidder, your link to the Kent situation being a good example of why.

 

My understanding is that up to now at least LEAs have not been able to bid for BSF contracts as it's a conflict of interest. Not sure if you mean or think that in Kent the bidder was somehow connected to the LEA but it was not. Land Securities and Northgate are no different to RM and they're overall bidding partner, ie. companies who were simply bidding for the contract with no prior connection with the LEA.

[Grommit]

Being a school technician in Hackney myself, I'd love to know where your getting this information from and how upto date it is, as :

 

All contact I've had from RM, and also my collegues here, has been that school technicians will be TUPED over.

 

I don't know if that also applies to the LEA technicians, maybe it's that the aplying for RM pool jobs might apply to them, which would make a fair ammount of sense as they would not be part of the school personael infrustructure.

 

In many areas the LEAs would have also been a rival bidder, so there may, in some circumstances, be a bit of PR spin involved, hoping to influences the outcome.

 

Personally I'd rather be TUPED to RM, who come out well in polls on how companies treat their staff, than to a LEA setup bidder, your link to the Kent situation being a good example of why.

 

Jill from Stoke Newington.. she said her NM is not being Tuped and has to apply for pool jobs with the other NM's, that the amount of technicians are being reduced and a technician school share is being started by RM..

 

Read her blog which seems to have stopped in October last year (as per the norm of BSF assimilation/gagging)

[glensc]

Jill from Stoke Newington.. she said her NM is not being Tuped and has to apply for pool jobs with the other NM's, that the amount of technicians are being reduced and a technician school share is being started by RM..

 

Read her blog which seems to have stopped in October last year (as per the norm of BSF assimilation/gagging)

 

I was reading her blog up till it stopped, real shame it did as it was quite insightfull.

 

Still, it seems to me, maybe a bit too much to extrapolate that 1/3 figure from a single instance and apply it to the area as a whole.

[broc]

My understanding is that up to now at least LEAs have not been able to bid for BSF contracts as it's a conflict of interest. Not sure if you mean or think that in Kent the bidder was somehow connected to the LEA but it was not. Land Securities and Northgate are no different to RM and they're overall bidding partner, ie. companies who were simply bidding for the contract with no prior connection with the LEA.

 

There have been some situations where LAs have been successful in bidding (in partnership with private companies) to run a managed service. Typically these can take the form of a private company that does the 'design & install' and the LA then runs the service with staff transferred from schools to the LA managed service. This happened early on during the BSF process but it is probably too early to say how well things have/will turn out.

 

You have to believe that at least an LA run MSP will not be driven by profit, but will they be as capable as a commercial company such as RM? Time will tell......

[john_brum]

news from the front line here in Birmingham.

 

Frankly this is a total balls up. Redstone do keep changing their minds, and it all seems to be about their finance and cost models.

 

Here's a typical example - Birmingham’s learning environment.

 

We were first shown ITWORX - some Egyptian piece of share point, they then three weeks later said there was no way this would be ready in time, so they said we would probably get RM kaleidos. Week or two later, we wont get RM because it's too expensive. Back to ITWORX, this time working with moodle.

 

Funny really link2ict (bgfl) were at the meeting regarding this and they looked like they were going to bust a blood vessel over the integration with cmis. Seemed to be the first thing they knew about it.

 

After all was said and done, Birmingham is expected to sign up for a learning platform nobody has seen working, sure we've seem a few schools in Egypt and the like, but it's nothing like the Birmingham situation, or complexity.

 

Also

 

here's something people might not realise, lets say your a phase 1 school, but still a year or 2 from actually being hit by this. Once the 1st school has been done we have to start paying for it £65 per student per year. Hmm, actually it could be £63. anyway, remember this could be for a few years with no benefit to us or any other school at all. Now they do say the systems will be available for use to use ie, the learning platform, but frankly who going to rip their network apart to utilise the learning platform at this stage. I mean it's bad enough that staff and students hardly have any storage space on the thing, and we wont be able to home any curriculum data locally any more.

 

To sum up, our systems will be removed and replaced with APP-v and a share point solution of types.

 

From a school who has 1 nn and 2 technicians we're down to 1 tech and a 6th former.

 

Still according to our figures we’ll receive sh*t loads of those little eeepc’s when this is all over. Seems to be cheapest way to boost the student to computer ratio. Oh goody. I guess it wont be my problem by then. Oh well.

[david_1152]

thanks John_Brum for your comments on redstone in Birmingham. It does sound like we were at some of the same meeting!

 

I can confirm Johns points are not rumours and have come for the horses mouths - so to speak.

 

However,

 

 

 

"Funny really link2ict (bgfl) were at the meeting regarding this and they looked like they were going to bust a blood vessel over the integration with cmis. Seemed to be the first thing they knew about it."

 

 

where as I agree with you on the point, this can hardly be described as a fact. I did have a word with service birmingham about this, and they wanted to take up the matter with redstone before commenting to anyone else.

 

 

D

[Slewis]

I can answer some of these for Northgate, we go over to their IMS in February 2010.

Had a Q&A 1:1 with them recently.

 

Some FACTUAL pros and cons:

1. What happens to the Network managers?

Carries on working as Network Manager, in school, over the IT techs, under one of their team leaders.

 

2. What happens to creativity and development (as opposed to just having one system, hardware, software foisted upon us)?

Creativity? That's all good, but bear in mind, everything you create at Northgate, Northgate own. Development, they reportedly develop a lot of their tools in-house.

 

3. What happens regarding other - not IT - jobs we do around school?

Carry on doing them if they add value to the contract. i.e. teaching how to use projector saves us much time in callouts.

 

4. What about help desk (is it local to school or based in India)?

Not local to school, but not in India either

 

5. How much access and freedom do the remaining IT staff have?

**Hearsay warning** Internet may be monitored at LEA level, from what I hear. Don't yet know more than that. **Hearsay warning**

 

6. How many redundancies have been made (either by economic reasons or change of conditions)?

Very few, fresh employment opportunities being created - managerial for the most part.

 

7. What new opportunities are opended up (I don't mean moving on up the managed service provider)?

Training is offered where there is a perceived shortage, or where it benefits your current role.

 

8. If there are any Network Managers left in BSF schools are they supported and allowed to stay - or are they "encouraged" to move on or up?

Network Manager is a required position, but I can't imagine there's all that much to do, even purchasing is done entirely via Northgate's catalogue (except in case of unplanned & immediate need).

 

10. During the Interim service do things remain the same or do new systems, software and hardware get forced on us?

Looks like things remain the same, for the Interim, with the additional of their call logging software

 

11. How are hours, holidays and salaries affected?

Hours unknown yet (we do flexi time atm, but it's not written in our T&Cs), holidays and salary will be the same, (possibility for more flexibility on holidays? - we're not allowed more than 1 consecutive day off during term time atm)

 

12. How are the remaining IT staff supported (local, remote only)?

Remote centre, callouts available, also help from technicians in nearby schools on offer.

 

13. What sort of improvement (or worsening) of service is provided by having EVERY IT call routing through a possibly foreign helpdesk?

They say we should still respond to adhoc queries and that calls can be logged retrospectively by teachers/ourselves.

[CyberNerd]

11. How are hours, holidays and salaries affected?

Hours unknown yet (we do flexi time atm, but it's not written in our T&Cs), holidays and salary will be the same, (possibility for more flexibility on holidays? - we're not allowed more than 1 consecutive day off during term time atm)

 

If you are TUPE'd they cannot change your terms and conditions unless you agree to it - that's the law.

 

 

 

2. What happens to creativity and development (as opposed to just having one system, hardware, software foisted upon us)?

Creativity? That's all good, but bear in mind, everything you create at Northgate, Northgate own. Development, they reportedly develop a lot of their tools in-house.

 

Everything I do now is GPL or Creative Commons, for the benefit if all schools. guess this sucks the spirit out of that.

 

1. What happens to the Network managers?

Carries on working as Network Manager, in school, over the IT techs, under one of their team leaders.

 

McDonalds is starting to sound good, I might get to the elusive 'team leader' position.

[Richie1972]

Yeah, I had the same 1 to 1 meeting (actually would have been 3 to 1 if I'd not had the Deputy Head in with me).

It did all sound very nice and went some way to allaying some of my fears, but the cynical side of me still wonders if I was just being told what I wanted to hear.

From what I've gathered so far jobs are safe (although I'll be the only IT Techie in my school - 700 to 800 computers, over 1000 students and god knows how many staff).

The fun is going to come when Northgate try to educate the staff on using the help desk and not flagging me down in the corridor (I've tried for 4 years to get them to use the one I designed).

 

I have found that communication could be better - some things I found out from the meeting that the school hadn't been told about and some things the school told that I was not informed of.

 

There are a few jobs on offer relating to BSF - if you want them.

There is supposedly somewhere where new hardware and software can be tested.

There are also likely to be opportunities for those who want to move to other areas.

 

I think one of my few concerns now is the long term position for network managers (once helpdesk and remote access is in place along with the Northgate supplied IT infrastructure). Short term, though, I could be safe - especially as I'm the only one involved in designing and maintaining the school's network

[Slewis]

Cybernerd:

 

If you are TUPE'd they cannot change your terms and conditions unless you agree to it - that's the law.

Yeah, that's what I'm saying, they're not part of my terms and conditions, it's just an informal set up here.

 

Not that TUPE is anything like the protection you might think it is; a) they can change any condition they like, so long as they give you 12weeks warning, and b) As has been mentioned on other threads, TUPE has no legal duration specified, it could be in effect for as little or as long as NG see fit.

 

Everything I do now is GPL or Creative Commons, for the benefit if all schools. guess this sucks the spirit out of that.

Yeap, NG got no love for open source, for sure.

 

McDonalds is starting to sound good, I might get to the elusive 'team leader' position.

Sounds like it'd be more work

 

Richie:

Yeah, I had the same 1 to 1 meeting (actually would have been 3 to 1 if I'd not had the Deputy Head in with me).

Aye, ours wasn't well organised either, had to go in with my Network Manager to save time. :-/

 

From what I've gathered so far jobs are safe (although I'll be the only IT Techie in my school - 700 to 800 computers, over 1000 students and god knows how many staff).

Aye, although we've been told the whole I.T. team stays in school?

 

The fun is going to come when Northgate try to educate the staff on using the help desk and not flagging me down in the corridor (I've tried for 4 years to get them to use the one I designed).

lol, one would hope they've had enough experience to get it right by now, but yeah, I can't really imagine it :P

 

I have found that communication could be better - some things I found out from the meeting that the school hadn't been told about and some things the school told that I was not informed of.

Definitely. I.e. School headteacher got told about the job vacancies few days before the 1:1 ("as a courtesy"), not that he thought he could share any of this information with us. Not heard a peep from NG about them, despite the closing date being less than a few working days away, had to chase it at the 1:1 to get the specifics sent to us. In what world does that make sense?

 

There is supposedly somewhere where new hardware and software can be tested.

Not heard about that, got anything more on it?

 

I think one of my few concerns now is the long term position for network managers (once helpdesk and remote access is in place along with the Northgate supplied IT infrastructure).

*nods* -Not a whole lot left to manage at all...

 

Short term, though, I could be safe - especially as I'm the only one involved in designing and maintaining the school's network

I've not heard anything about them doing away with the position, when someone leaves the post it seems to be re-advertised as Network Manager. So, there'll be something there for you, it's just a question of what

[Grommit]

I can answer some of these for Northgate, we go over to their IMS in February 2010.

Had a Q&A 1:1 with them recently.

 

Some FACTUAL pros and cons:

1. What happens to the Network managers?

Carries on working as Network Manager, in school, over the IT techs, under one of their team leaders.

 

2. What happens to creativity and development (as opposed to just having one system, hardware, software foisted upon us)?

Creativity? That's all good, but bear in mind, everything you create at Northgate, Northgate own. Development, they reportedly develop a lot of their tools in-house.

 

3. What happens regarding other - not IT - jobs we do around school?

Carry on doing them if they add value to the contract. i.e. teaching how to use projector saves us much time in callouts.

 

4. What about help desk (is it local to school or based in India)?

Not local to school, but not in India either

 

5. How much access and freedom do the remaining IT staff have?

**Hearsay warning** Internet may be monitored at LEA level, from what I hear. Don't yet know more than that. **Hearsay warning**

 

6. How many redundancies have been made (either by economic reasons or change of conditions)?

Very few, fresh employment opportunities being created - managerial for the most part.

 

7. What new opportunities are opended up (I don't mean moving on up the managed service provider)?

Training is offered where there is a perceived shortage, or where it benefits your current role.

 

8. If there are any Network Managers left in BSF schools are they supported and allowed to stay - or are they "encouraged" to move on or up?

Network Manager is a required position, but I can't imagine there's all that much to do, even purchasing is done entirely via Northgate's catalogue (except in case of unplanned & immediate need).

 

10. During the Interim service do things remain the same or do new systems, software and hardware get forced on us?

Looks like things remain the same, for the Interim, with the additional of their call logging software

 

11. How are hours, holidays and salaries affected?

Hours unknown yet (we do flexi time atm, but it's not written in our T&Cs), holidays and salary will be the same, (possibility for more flexibility on holidays? - we're not allowed more than 1 consecutive day off during term time atm)

 

12. How are the remaining IT staff supported (local, remote only)?

Remote centre, callouts available, also help from technicians in nearby schools on offer.

 

13. What sort of improvement (or worsening) of service is provided by having EVERY IT call routing through a possibly foreign helpdesk?

They say we should still respond to adhoc queries and that calls can be logged retrospectively by teachers/ourselves.

 

Do the network managers Manage the Servers still or is that done by Northgate ?

 

And wasn't Deaks the NM of a BSF Northgate School retrenched by Northgate ?

[Slewis]

Do the network managers Manage the Servers still or is that done by Northgate ?

Yeap, Network Managers are still responsible for keeping the servers running from day-to-day.

 

And wasn't Deaks the NM of a BSF Northgate School retrenched by Northgate ?

As I mentioned, I don't know for certain, but that's what I've gathered.

[Grommit]

Yeap, Network Managers are still responsible for keeping the servers running from day-to-day.

 

 

As I mentioned, I don't know for certain, but that's what I've gathered.

 

Are these the old servers or the New BSF servers ? as I understand Northgate was keeping the existing setup untill they take fully over and purge the Networks and rebuild a new network

[Slewis]

Are these the old servers or the New BSF servers ? as I understand Northgate was keeping the existing setup untill they take fully over and purge the Networks and rebuild a new network

 

:-/

I can't state this as fact, since we're not upto that stage yet, we go to Integrated Services on Feb 1st.

 

Buut, from what we've been told our School is being managed in three stages:

 

1. Integrated Services: They supply a Helpdesk but otherwise work with what we've got for 6months.

2. Core Services: ??? your guess is as good as mine, we've got kit that desperately needs updating, so we're hopeful.

3. School rebuilt: We're congenially assured that as I.C.T. Technicians/NM we'll have a say in the new network.

 

lol - Just now received a request through to send bank details etc etc via Email to NG... but it's okay, since all NorthGate systems are encrypted! ~Graciously, they will also accept hard copies however, for us sticklers.

Edited January 15, 2010 by Slewis

[Demonic69]

Are these the old servers or the New BSF servers ? as I understand Northgate was keeping the existing setup untill they take fully over and purge the Networks and rebuild a new network

 

The norm with BSF is to tupe the staff over before the infrastructure changes too dramatically. Then all the kit that's not good enough to meet the set criteria is replaced with new, servers, PCs et al.

 

Once the new kit is in the Techies and NM will continue looking after the day-to-day running of the servers, with Support Consultants being called in if anything major needs doing.

The support consultant's position will probably not exist in the local area so any NMs worth their salt can also look at this position for progression.

 

In Leeds no-one was canned, even the really bad staff. If they're talking about not carrying all staff over, you probably have too many in the 1st place. I know it sounds harsh, but we're running a school of 1200 kids, with almost 1000 bits of kit, with 2 guys. There were 3 before BSF with half the kit.

If you're any good you'll be fine, there will, un-doubtedly, be a few bad techies who have reason to worry.

 

I know it's a big change, but for Education and schools to progress they need this kind of up-heaval.

[wesley]

I am going to work for Northgate from 1st of April providing they short out my pension paper work, was meant to be last October some time but paper work has dragged on.

 

I was just wondering how the whole call time response thing work, as lets face it there is nothing in my school contract about responding to calls in 15 mins, which was a time mentioned in one of my two meetings with them.

 

Is there any way they can actaully enforce this?

[MWT]

Call response just means the time in which you go down assess the issue and give an estimated fix time. Yeah, they'll likely want it as the school can (and will) financially penalise them for not keeping to it as stipulated under the BSF agreement.

 

But I doubt they can punish you for missing their target time, so long as you can explain why. I.e. that you were working on xyz and not just swanning off, so to speak.

[ngreenwood]

Nope, not in this case, the SLA is from first report to fix. The contract between the LEA and the MS provider will involve cash fines if SLAs are missed. It is up to the MS provider to ensure that each site has enough people to cover any 15 minute calls.

[MWT]

Hmm, perhaps thats for 'core services'? My experience thus far (as I should have stated) is just the interim service.

[ngreenwood]

True, in the interim service there is usually no SLA. As it is usally old kit that the MS provider cant really be held responsible for. When the new gear is formally accepted the SLAs will kick in.

[Richie1972]

During interim srvice it is response time not fix time.

So, for example, should a PC go down and the fault is logged with the helpdesk, the "customer" has to be contacted/fault acknowledged within 20 minutes.

Once full managed service is in place then it becomes 20 mins (or whatever, depending on the fault and SLA) to fix the problem and close the call

 

It means that during the interim, the MSP doesn't end up with totally impossible to meet SLAs due to having to maintain old/non-standard equipment. It also means that as long as the fault is acknowledged, the MSP is meeting its SLA and won't be fined.

[wesley]

A year and half later I still don't work for them, its meant to have been the first of the month since December and every month since then, something to do with pensions.

 

What bugs me the most is the total lack of communication you just get told nothing and then randomly I get told things in passing in corridors.

[david_1152]

actually - how weird is this - todays our day. all the tech guys now have a new contract signed, redstone shirts and phones - all except me. I've took another job within the school.

[richrad_mills]

actually - how weird is this - todays our day. all the tech guys now have a new contract signed, redstone shirts and phones - all except me. I've took another job within the school.

 

Hi David_1152,

 

Just wanted to know how it is going with redstone? Has it been a good move? have the IT services improved? What contract have you signed and are you happy with it? how do your ex technicians feel about redstone now that they have been employed by them?

 

Our school might get taken over, would you advice me to look for another job?

 

Thanks,

 

Richard Mills