powdarrmonkey Posted February 12, 2009 Posted February 12, 2009 (mmmmm Broadcom), Eugh, what a dirty word. Depends on your distribution; with Slackware I had to fiddle to get wireless drivers working (but this was also a long time ago). With Debian I just said aptitude install b43 fw-cutter.
mac_shinobi Posted February 12, 2009 Posted February 12, 2009 So don't use it. If you want an easy life, there is Windows (or Leopard, if you're that way inclined). If you want raw power, there's Unix. And if you want raw powered tamed a little, there's Linux. Deal with it. But if you're prepared to put some time and effort in (and I mean >2 years, because that's how long it takes), you'll reap the rewards accordingly. Get an apple mac ( Intel one ) then you can run windows, linux or OS X - Just get the apple care for piece of mind and should be fine.
localzuk Posted February 12, 2009 Posted February 12, 2009 If users had to install drivers or geek tweek lines of code just to get a basic wheel mouse to work windows would never have got the monoply that they have. Ubuntu need to learn this or it will aways be seen as a coders playground and not a serious OS Windows didn't have wheelmouse support when it came out, as they didn't exist! Then people created them, and aimed them at Windows. But then, i've used at least 10 different wheel mice (including a Logitch MX laser mouse) and never had a single issue. And yes, some of these mice do require drivers to work correctly in Windows. Also, the millions of users who have shifted from Windows to Linux certainly don't see it as a 'coders playground'... As has been said before, you get hardware that is compatible with a system, not get a system then hope it works with your OS choice.
tmcd35 Posted February 12, 2009 Posted February 12, 2009 UBUNTU SUCKS..... the life out of my graphics card My server has ubuntu hh but it can only manage a screen resolution of 800x600 the graphix card is a fully working ATI 7500. I've been on ubuntu forums and it seems I can coax higher screen resolutions out of ubuntu if open an archaic text editor and type what seems to be gibberish for the next 15 eons, The Ubuntu techs have got it so wrong, I will NOT sit in front of a text editor for hours on end fixing their screw ups, If every I dip my toes in to test the linux waters they keep get badly bitten Phew!!! If Ubuntu doesn't do what you want try another disto... DistroWatch.com: Put the fun back into computing. Use Linux, BSD. I personally like OpenSUSE. If you're stuggling to learn the basics of Linux admin then perhaps one of the 'Unleashed' books would be a good purchase... [ame=http://www.amazon.co.uk/Fedora-Red-Enterprise-Linux-Unleashed/dp/0672330490/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1234465781&sr=8-2]Fedora and Red Hat Enterprise Linux Unleashed: Covering Fedora 10, Fedora 11 and Red Hat Enterprise Linux 5: Andrew Hudson, Paul Hudson, Tammy Fox: Amazon.co.uk: Books[/ame] Is there a reason why the server is running *nix instead of Windows? Is there a reason why Win2k3 or Win2k8 server can't be used instead? Failing all of that. If you can't/won't run Windows and Linux is not working, then there is Mac. BSD Unix with a fool proof GUI.
powdarrmonkey Posted February 12, 2009 Posted February 12, 2009 (edited) If users had to install drivers or geek tweek lines of code just to get a basic wheel mouse to work windows would never have got the monoply that they have. I'd also like to point out that the setting in question is one line in xorg.conf. That's really not so much to ask, surely? Boy, Slackware would fry your head... Edited February 12, 2009 by powdarrmonkey
tmcd35 Posted February 12, 2009 Posted February 12, 2009 I'd also like to point out that the setting in question is one line in xorg.conf. That's really not so much to ask, surely? It makes you wonder how we ever coped back in the day? Back in the early 90's when I first got on the Internet I had to install a TCP/IP stack by hand, edit alot more config file than 'one line in xorg.conf', set up some dial up scripts, hard code a static IP and pray the thing would work. When it did I had a Terminal only session to the internet. There was Gopher but no pretty graphic WWW.
soapyfish Posted February 12, 2009 Posted February 12, 2009 I have this problem if I am connecting to a CRT monitor or if I use a TFT via an DVI- Dsub adapter. to fix it I edit the xorg.conf and specifiy the sync ranges of the screen and also install the ATi driver. As mentioned I would never run a *nix server with a GUI just use putty and ssh after you have it configured and I would only ever use a LTS version of ubuntu to server.
localzuk Posted February 12, 2009 Posted February 12, 2009 It makes you wonder how we ever coped back in the day? Back in the early 90's when I first got on the Internet I had to install a TCP/IP stack by hand, edit alot more config file than 'one line in xorg.conf', set up some dial up scripts, hard code a static IP and pray the thing would work. When it did I had a Terminal only session to the internet. There was Gopher but no pretty graphic WWW. Indeed, I remember the fun of getting on the net with a mac classic computer and a natty little (little now meaning 'giant') 14.4kbps modem... There was certainly no 'stick your aol cd in and away you go'...
redsnappa Posted February 12, 2009 Author Posted February 12, 2009 If Ubuntu doesn't do what you want try another disto... Doh! That’s like saying if you can’t swim try different water Gotta really ask the question why would you be running X (GUI) on a server anyway ? I’ dyslexic why you got a problem with that? Is there a reason why the server is running *nix instead of Windows? Is there a reason why Win2k3 or Win2k8 server can't be used instead? I a very competent windows user I was just trying to find out if the grass was really greener the other side of the fence, It is not all I’ve found just ankle deep mud I'd also like to point out that the setting in question is one line in xorg.conf. That's really not so much to ask, surely? Just to get a basic mouse to work??? Now way not me It makes you wonder how we ever coped back in the day? Back in the early 90's when I first got on the Internet I had to install a TCP/IP stack by hand, edit alot more config file than 'one line in xorg.conf', set up some dial up scripts, hard code a static IP and pray the thing would work. I also remember editing autoexec.bats & msdex to get CDrom drives & mice to work with Win 3.11 but now way would I edit text to get one to work with a modern OS that sort of thing should be fixed by now.
localzuk Posted February 12, 2009 Posted February 12, 2009 Just to get a basic mouse to work??? Now way not me How is editing one line any different from clicking a couple of things like in windows? I also remember editing autoexec.bats & msdex to get CDrom drives & mice to work with Win 3.11 but now way would I edit text to get one to work with a modern OS that sort of thing should be fixed by now. I still don't get your argument? You're saying that Windows never requests you to edit any config files/regedit any more?
webman Posted February 12, 2009 Posted February 12, 2009 If Ubuntu doesn't do what you want try another disto... Doh! That’s like saying if you can’t swim try different water Bad analogy there Mr Snappa - those are totally different things. Different distros use different hardware detection and configuration methods so it is a good suggestion to try. But you're obviously so disappointed with Linux now that anything we suggest to try and help is going to be dismissed with a "Why should I? That's too difficult! I shouldn't have to do that! Etc etc etc"
kmount Posted February 12, 2009 Posted February 12, 2009 Your attitude stinks, you clearly do not understand the point people are trying to make. A modern OS such as Server 2008 (using your thinking) with Exchange 2007 in PowerShell, a command line environment Surely that's against your thinking? Some people can handle getting under the hood making things happen, some can't, if you fall into the latter then continue with whatever you're happy with. You do know that Ubuntu isn't even 5 years old yet don't you; the whole Linux community has done well getting people like ATI, & Nvidia to make closed source binary drivers to give the end user as close a performance offering as in Windows. 3
powdarrmonkey Posted February 12, 2009 Posted February 12, 2009 (edited) If Ubuntu doesn't do what you want try another disto... Doh! That’s like saying if you can’t swim try different water No, it's like saying if you don't like how your car drives, choose another (whereas you're saying, if you don't like how it drives, get the bus). Why are there many tens of distributions available? Because they all suit different needs. Of the popular ones, and incredibly generalised: Debian: people who want stability Slackware: people who like hacking (in the true sense) Gentoo: people who like software that will give them maximum performance, at the cost of having to compile it themselves Ubuntu: people who want a gentle introduction, or particularly like team package maintenance Mint: people who want apt's package management, but bleeding edge software Fedora: people who want to benefit from RedHat's init system RedHat: people who have companies with critical systems, and need support Knoppix: people who need live CDs for rescue etc, etc, etc. Choice. That's the Linux way. Don't like it? Do it differently - better still, make it work well, and then share it so other people benefit. I a very competent windows user I was just trying to find out if the grass was really greener the other side of the fence, It is not all I’ve found just ankle deep mud Don't use it then, and don't coming to us harping on about how muddy it is: if we want to find out, we'll wade into it ourselves. Choice, remember? Just to get a basic mouse to work??? Now way not me It's not going to work any time soon then, is it? Your mouse works, you just haven't told it how you want it to behave. I also remember editing autoexec.bats & msdex to get CDrom drives & mice to work with Win 3.11 but now way would I edit text to get one to work with a modern OS that sort of thing should be fixed by now. It is fixed, you just fail at instructions. And kmount is right, your attitude is pathetic. Edited February 12, 2009 by powdarrmonkey
tmcd35 Posted February 12, 2009 Posted February 12, 2009 Mattx may want to print this post and frame it - I'm going admit a big failing in OS X (IMHO) OS X in particular, and recent version of Windows to a lesser extent, wrap the end user up in too pretty a GUI and make thinks too easy with a point and click interface tha people forget what actually goes into making a computer work. Back in the 8bit days when you turned a computer on an was dumped at a BASIC command prompt and you had to learn what was what and why. Now for Joe Public end user, this is progress. My parents don't need to know any of this under the hood stuff and thats great. But I think at our level we should appreciate how complex any OS is and expect to get our hand dirty once in a while. Now having to edit xorg.conf to get a mouse work is going a little bit far in 2009, I admit it. I'm surprised Ubuntu did play a little bit fairer. But seriously if Ubuntu doesn't work for you try another disto. The difference between SUSE, Red Hat, Debian, Slackware, etc is equivalant to the difference between Mac OS and Windows or Atari ST's and Commodore Amiga's. They are simple not the same OS - just based on the same Kernel. 1
mac_shinobi Posted February 12, 2009 Posted February 12, 2009 As per above what about Knoppix ? Or free bsd ? Depends what you do most on the platform - you need to decide what your going to be doing most on that platform and go from there.
mac_shinobi Posted February 12, 2009 Posted February 12, 2009 Mattx may want to print this post and frame it - I'm going admit a big failing in OS X (IMHO) OS X in particular, and recent version of Windows to a lesser extent, wrap the end user up in too pretty a GUI and make thinks too easy with a point and click interface tha people forget what actually goes into making a computer work. Back in the 8bit days when you turned a computer on an was dumped at a BASIC command prompt and you had to learn what was what and why. Now for Joe Public end user, this is progress. My parents don't need to know any of this under the hood stuff and thats great. But I think at our level we should appreciate how complex any OS is and expect to get our hand dirty once in a while. Now having to edit xorg.conf to get a mouse work is going a little bit far in 2009, I admit it. I'm surprised Ubuntu did play a little bit fairer. But seriously if Ubuntu doesn't work for you try another disto. The difference between SUSE, Red Hat, Debian, Slackware, etc is equivalant to the difference between Mac OS and Windows or Atari ST's and Commodore Amiga's. They are simple not the same OS - just based on the same Kernel. yeah I agree with that - admittedly I have become very lazy and not bothered with man pages or learning whats under the hood figuratively speaking. Will try and make an effort during my holiday time to see if I can get around to doing some of that as would be nice to know how it works better. Although what you say is true I must say this : OS X although being easy still gives users the opportunity to get your hands dirty ( just like any OS ). At the end of the day its down to the user on how far they go with it. Almost like the matrix lol - here is the red and blue pill, if you take the red pill I can show you the rabbit hole and how far you go is up to you !! This thread is starting to end up like the iphone one - I got an apple for me - not for anyone else - I enjoy apple stuff for the most part and it was my money that I earnt and spent so
powdarrmonkey Posted February 12, 2009 Posted February 12, 2009 I got an apple for me - not for anyone else - I enjoy apple stuff for the most part and it was my money that I earnt and spent so Well said. 1
tmcd35 Posted February 12, 2009 Posted February 12, 2009 This thread is starting to end up like the iphone one It's always the problem with threads like this. They are so interesting in terms of comparing Bananas with Oranges but they so quickly descend into Oranges are better than Bananas. I'm all for having a good honest discussing on the pro's and con's of the various OS options out there, god know's I have used and do use a fair few. Ultimately you are right - It's horses for courses. We choose what is right for us and no one else. But there is a place I feel in these hallowed pages for discussing the options openly and helping the undecided discover the right option for them. 1
mac_shinobi Posted February 12, 2009 Posted February 12, 2009 Definitely - I can say that I have used windows and mac os more then anything else aside from maybe a linux live disc here and there - wasn't too keen on all the long command lines which is why I skipped linux for the time being. They all have there advantages and dis advantages. At the end of the day its a tool and as long as your happy with what you use thats all that matters. I do use boot camp and run windows on my mac just for the gaming aspect because I dont see why I should pay extra for the same game when on windows you can get doom 3 or the same game for less money ? I don't understand that - maybe it runs faster and better on os x ? What am I missing there lol. My reasoning for getting a mac ( whether you or anyone else agrees or dis agrees with me ) is for the pure and simple reason that I can choose what operating system I want to run without limitations. I can run windows , linux , OS X and run them ( from what I am aware - correct me if I am wrong though ) natively - using boot camp or vmware fusion or whatever. As apposed to all these people using the x86 project that can only run in vesa mode from what I am aware and having to do all these hacks just to run OS X on a normal PC ( Non apple ). If so many people hate apple / OS X or w/e then how come these companies keep going against the apple EULA / Licensing and are selling OS X Leopard or Tiger on normal None Apple hard ware platforms ? Must be missing something again ( obviously ). Maybe someone can enlighthen me. My Mac does what I want it to and Im happy
redsnappa Posted February 12, 2009 Author Posted February 12, 2009 I still don't get your argument? You're saying that Windows never requests you to edit any config files/regedit any more? To get a mouse to work? Not in over ten tears A modern OS such as Server 2008 (using your thinking) with Exchange 2007 in PowerShell, a command line environment Surely that's against your thinking? No way, a mailserver is quite a complex system so command line in linux & windows & any other OS is more useful than gui in those instances but, now way will I edit text to get a mouse scroll wheel to work in any OS!! All I'm saying is that if ubuntu wants to capture the market from serious windows users it has to work straight of the disk with no faffing about getting the basics to work thus leaving the users brain cell alone to concentrate on the really complex matters.
polaris Posted February 12, 2009 Posted February 12, 2009 Hi, A little bit of history - bear with me......cutting quite a bit of history out here but you will get the point! In the good old days (pre PC) there were mainframes, these mainly ran prorietory OS, you choose the manufacturer and the OS to suit your application. It's where the saying "no one ever got sacked for buying IBM" came from, because you could choose a wacky OS... but the sensible Pre-Geeks bought IBM. In the late 1970's the Digital Computer Company made Unix the front runner with its VAX/VMS Hardware/OS combination. This was further enhanced by the addition of Floating Point Accelerators (FPA). Then came the PC, with Bill's hijacked OS, MS-DOS.....and the world went PC crazy. Gradually over time PC's became the dominant partner, but reliability was crap. MS-DOS was eventually reliable (and is still used in embedded products) but "Windows" - Bill's attempt at short circuiting Apple, was a nightmare. Years and years of Windows were released until XP.....finally a reliable Windows.... ...and guess what. XP is driven by the old VMS team - yes, its got a UNIX base - you won't get MS admitting it, but its true. And now? Now we have Vista, built by the MS Alpha Team (not the XP guys)... and its not as good as XP? Possibly? But which team is writing Windows 7? You guessed it.......and why is it being pushed forward by two years? So, soon the argument is going to be pointless, the world is going to have a UNIX base, Linux/Windows you choose but underneath its UNIX. CB
mac_shinobi Posted February 12, 2009 Posted February 12, 2009 Hi, So, soon the argument is going to be pointless, the world is going to have a UNIX base, Linux/Windows you choose but underneath its UNIX. CB Isn't leopard onwards UNIX - Im sure it got the UNIX certification or something or other?
tmcd35 Posted February 12, 2009 Posted February 12, 2009 Isn't leopard onwards UNIX - Im sure it got the UNIX certification or something or other? Okay... More history.... OS-X is based on NextStep. A BSD Unix distribution based on a Mach microkernel. NextStep dates from around 1988, yes OS X is over 20 years old! All versions of OS-X have been BSD Unix and AFAIK POSIX complient. With OS X 10.5 (Leopard) the OS was finally officially certified as a BSD Unix operating system.
mac_shinobi Posted February 12, 2009 Posted February 12, 2009 Okay... More history.... OS-X is based on NextStep. A BSD Unix distribution based on a Mach microkernel. NextStep dates from around 1988, yes OS X is over 20 years old! All versions of OS-X have been BSD Unix and AFAIK POSIX complient. With OS X 10.5 (Leopard) the OS was finally officially certified as a BSD Unix operating system. I know about that I was just commenting saying that OS X Leopard got the UNIX Cert / Stamp. Just mixing it up as usual he he and on that note I think I will grab my coat
powdarrmonkey Posted February 12, 2009 Posted February 12, 2009 I disagree. There is going to be a place for Windows for a long time yet, and even then the OS market is going to be unrecognisable in any case.
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