Midget Posted November 22, 2008 Posted November 22, 2008 hat if access was granted based on the best facepainting?
Edu-IT Posted November 22, 2008 Posted November 22, 2008 hat if access was granted based on the best facepainting? I'm a dab hand at paint by numbers so count me in.
laserblazer Posted November 22, 2008 Posted November 22, 2008 A possible solution would be to have a group of verified members (those that are known to be in the trade) who are willing to nominate prospective trade members. For example, I email Grumbledook expressing the wish to join. He can then email [email protected] verifying who I am. I think the idea of a more secure forum is good. Not only for the reasons mentioned. I had an irate supplier email me on the basis of a post. I should hasten to add I've also had suppliers email me with the best of intent - Dan
WithoutMotive Posted November 22, 2008 Posted November 22, 2008 Create a webpage with a message for the admins on their school webserver. Forward the address to the admins. That would surely verify identity. On the registration for Edugeek: "If you are a tech, please place this code somewhere on your school/company website and type the address in the box below. This will verify your identity as a genuine tech and you will have access to more secure areas of the Edugeek Forums. Once you are verified, you are free to remove this page." Just an idea. No more work for the Admins other than verify the page exists for tech registrations
GrumbleDook Posted November 22, 2008 Posted November 22, 2008 A possible solution would be to have a group of verified members (those that are known to be in the trade) who are willing to nominate prospective trade members. For example, I email Grumbledook expressing the wish to join. He can then email [email protected] verifying who I am. I think the idea of a more secure forum is good. Not only for the reasons mentioned. I had an irate supplier email me on the basis of a post. I should hasten to add I've also had suppliers email me with the best of intent - Dan And this is where it gets a bit tricky. You are now talking about a secure area where trade members can't see things in case you say something that gets them annoyed. I'm sure that myself and the other admins would be interested to hear which supplier gave you grief as well ... PM me if you want to chat about it. A dim view is taken of suppliers that give grief to members *unless it is justified* (usually someone having a rant and not painting a full picture or just airing dirty laundry in public!). Where do we draw the line? Do we have a special area for 'respected' members ... people we know and trust and are happy that they know what they are talking about and are the uber-edugeeks? We already have people worried that there are cliques and that people are treated differently ... And what would we talk about in there that we would not talk about elsewhere? Rants about suppliers? I thought people were happy now that it isn't rants that make things better but constructive criticism (or name and shame). Security concerns? Refer back to my previous post about obscurity ... all we can do is add a layer of obfustication which is why the security forum is not a public feed and not indexed by google search. The one thing that we do have an issue with is spam, and verification is handy there ... but a lot of work. When we have 15-30 new members a day it is a chunk of time to do verification. I am not ruling it out ... and no doubt the other admins and mods are happy to chat about how they feel about it (I'll go and get some discussion going about it) but personally I can't see much to gain from it, but happy to have someone try and change my view.
witch Posted November 22, 2008 Posted November 22, 2008 Create a webpage with a message for the admins on their school webserver. Forward the address to the admins. That would surely verify identity. On the registration for Edugeek: "If you are a tech, please place this code somewhere on your school/company website and type the address in the box below. This will verify your identity as a genuine tech and you will have access to more secure areas of the Edugeek Forums. Once you are verified, you are free to remove this page." Just an idea. No more work for the Admins other than verify the page exists for tech registrations That is presuming that all techs have a) a school webserver and b) access to the website Some of us don't! But we are still proper school techs - what would you do about us?
markcuk Posted November 22, 2008 Posted November 22, 2008 god might as well make this place for mods and admins only at this rate!!
button_ripple Posted November 22, 2008 Posted November 22, 2008 I like the idea. Lets say I had a problem on my network and I needed help with it, but it would involve giving up information on the network setup then you could post in the private forum and the trusted and verified techs can help and you can get a good nights sleep safe in the knowledge that no pupils/staff have got access to the information. I'm not sure how you could do the verification, but I think this idea has a lot of potential!
GrumbleDook Posted November 22, 2008 Posted November 22, 2008 I like the idea. Lets say I had a problem on my network and I needed help with it, but it would involve giving up information on the network setup then you could post in the private forum and the trusted and verified techs can help and you can get a good nights sleep safe in the knowledge that no pupils/staff have got access to the information. I'm not sure how you could do the verification, but I think this idea has a lot of potential! I do it the same way the Kim does ... PM a few people or put out a general request for help with limited information and continue discussions via PM, email or the phone. I've helped others out this way too. I tend to ask those who have decent rep or are known to give good advice. If your aim is to get advice with risking your network then yes ... that sound a good reason to a protected area ... the difficulty is how it is managed. Previously I used to lurk on a protected IRC channel to give advice ... there would usually be three or four people on at a time and when someone in the general channel had an issue they would ask for access ... it would be granted and a spin off channel would be made for them to discuss things with people known to be the "good guys". The main concern was not with where people were from but that they knew their stuff. Not sure whether that would work ... and if it is sustainable.
GrumbleDook Posted November 22, 2008 Posted November 22, 2008 god might as well make this place for mods and admins only at this rate!! That's my concern ... been in too many places that have had a cabal / clique. It always cause issues.
markcuk Posted November 22, 2008 Posted November 22, 2008 @grumbledook The site does seem to be heading that way a little bit:eek: mark
WithoutMotive Posted November 23, 2008 Posted November 23, 2008 That is presuming that all techs have a) a school webserver and b) access to the website Some of us don't! But we are still proper school techs - what would you do about us? Very true. Was just an idea.
SYNACK Posted November 23, 2008 Posted November 23, 2008 (edited) Just a word of caution for this, the more information that is collected the more chance there is for something to go wrong. Members have already had to quit the forum because their details got out. Its not that I don't trust the site or the people who run it or anything like that but the mere presence of the data increases the danger. There have already been attempts to hack the site - admittedly to use it a a proxy - and this would make it an even more tempting and valuable target. The other thing is that all it would take would be one weak link in the system to cause trouble, one volunteer checker with a grudge or compromised email for all hell to break loose. I think that although it could be useful it would cause a large administrative burden and put a lot more of a burden on the site than anyone has predicted. There is also a strange sense of security that comes with being anonymous that enables people to participate that otherwise may not be able to. The demonizing of students is also a dangerous path as there may well be be students that are able to provide value to the forum. The forum came along after I had left school but if it had been around back then it would have been useful to me and I could have been useful to it as I was in fact supporting some school computers. Drawing lines is sometimes necessary but it should be considered very carefully. Edited November 23, 2008 by SYNACK
Jackd Posted November 23, 2008 Posted November 23, 2008 I'm a student, but im not here to find vulnerabilities in peoples networks and exploit them and look for proxies...although i understand all students arnt like me. But i think the having a verified status section would reduce posts on the public forums which would make things more boring for people like me who wouldn't be able to get in there Jack
ahuxham Posted November 24, 2008 Posted November 24, 2008 (edited) Dear god no. Don't just jump into the site and try to change it, it runs perfectly fine, dos_box and the other mods have a good model for user viewing. Tough luck if students are viewing, there's not alot they can do. Not forgetting, majority of viewers are googlers with no accounts. Don't like the mechanism, don't complain. EDIT: Don't make this an elitist contest, because your a NM, and want everyone to know that, there's no difference on these forums between the roles, we all come here for the same reason. If the site ever became elitist like that, I'd surely leave. I don't care about your position in a school, or the fact you want to show it off. Were all on equal grounds on this site Edited November 24, 2008 by ahuxham
Friez Posted November 24, 2008 Posted November 24, 2008 I don't think this is very feasable from an admin perspective tbh.
GrumbleDook Posted November 24, 2008 Posted November 24, 2008 Dear god no. Don't just jump into the site and try to change it, it runs perfectly fine, dos_box and the other mods have a good model for user viewing. Tough luck if students are viewing, there's not alot they can do. Not forgetting, majority of viewers are googlers with no accounts. Don't like the mechanism, don't complain. EDIT: Don't make this an elitist contest, because your a NM, and want everyone to know that, there's no difference on these forums between the roles, we all come here for the same reason. If the site ever became elitist like that, I'd surely leave. I don't care about your position in a school, or the fact you want to show it off. Were all on equal grounds on this site I don't think that this is really about elitism ... more a case that some are conerned that they cannot freely share some of the information they would like to due to it being read or used by those who it is not appropriate for, possibly due to security implications, possibly due to the need to discuss sensitive issues around competency of users (staff and students) within their specific school or simply because they want to get information from those that they know are doing the same job or have the same responsibility. The last bit may come across elitist but I think in this case it is just a sense of wanting to weed out the enthusiast from the experienced. Anyway ... the site is always for discussion ... it is just that some suggestions can't be done due to time, costs, man hours, legal issues, are just plain silly, have been tried before and didn't work then or DB prefers to leave it as it is.
DG01 Posted November 24, 2008 Author Posted November 24, 2008 (edited) Okay I feel the need to straighten thing's out immediately. I have clearly suggested something which has been discussed in the past, the idea of which was laid to rest due to time/management requirements. However, since that discussion time has passed. I was not aware of the previous discussion, but, I made my suggestion. The idea is very simple: a "secure" "verified" forum section for "verified" ICT Technicians and Network Managers who work in education in addition to the currently available forums. This idea would not aim to "change" the current format of EduGeek, nor would it attempt to undermine the excellent work and support the current Administrators put in to EduGeek. It would not be compulsory/it would be optional. Yes EduGeek is a resource - that said we all know how hard it is to manage networks, the time it takes and the dedication it requires. Some discussions on this forum may have at some point in the past, or may at some point in the future require a more "secure" "verified" discussion between professionals. Why should we as those professionals point out security holes/circumvention websites in such an "un-secure" way which actually feeds exploits to the end users of not only our own networks but to the end users of others. My aim has been simple from post #1: to establish feedback on whether people thought this would be a good idea or not. Yes there is the issue of how do we "verify" people. This could be done via multiple methods - phone calls, html/php uploads to a web server, email confirmation to generic office@ school emails, fax then a follow up call etc Yes there is the argument of you could find this information somewhere else, maybe you could, but again, do we really need to list the latest exploits for the end users of other networks? The majority of forums are related to technical discussions - security discussions are accessible to all registered members - so let's consider the idea of security/exploit/circumvention discussions for "verified" EduTech's. It's not a competition of elitist ism, it's not an aim to make EduGeek become Administrators/Moderators only. It's an idea to make some people's lives easier (who do our jobs and who aren't EduGeek members or who are EduGeek members but don't check back every day) and further develop EduGeek to a standing where exploit and circumvention related content is for "verified" EduTech's only. I don't want to read another post about elitism or showing off, reducing the appearance of EduGeek or people going to leave EduGeek because Technology is possibly changing. This is IT - there's years of change to come and EduGeek's aim from day #1 I imagine was always to keep up to date with IT in Education. Now let's all buck up and act like professionals. This isn't a "rip the idea apart discussion", "get all bitchy about a discussion". This is a discussion between people who help to shape the future of young people, care about education, care about their networks and strive to work with others in the same field achieving the best standards possible. /rant over - it had to be said. Edited November 24, 2008 by DG01 Spelling Mistake
witch Posted November 24, 2008 Posted November 24, 2008 (edited) Whilst I agree in principle, I think that there are always ways to speak in private to members whose posts lead you to believe that they can help you with your particular 'sensitive' issue. At one point I was in favour of removing students but I have come to realise that they are able to get the info elsewhere and that most of them on this site are genuinely here because they want to learn about IT, not be subversive. And...... The discussion is drawing to a close now ... time to calm down and take things as offered. Ideas for discussion, without prejudice or otherwise. [GD] Edited November 24, 2008 by GrumbleDook At request of witch
DG01 Posted November 24, 2008 Author Posted November 24, 2008 There was no slightly superior attitude. There was an idea suggested, it got ripped apart, it became an elitism topic, then it become one of discussion attitudes. The simple response - I'll have the post removed because frankly it is clear than not every who works in Education actually cares, each to their own.
DG01 Posted November 24, 2008 Author Posted November 24, 2008 This is no longer an idea which I am actively promoting or suggesting. A request has been made for the topic to be removed. Least to say I am disappointed with the half "unprofessional" responses that I've received. I expected more to say the least.
HMCTech Posted November 24, 2008 Posted November 24, 2008 This is no longer an idea which I am actively promoting or suggesting. A request has been made for the topic to be removed. Least to say I am disappointed with the half "unprofessional" responses that I've received. I expected more to say the least. Man get over yourself, I do hope we dont have to suffer your ideas and attitudes for much longer.
DG01 Posted November 24, 2008 Author Posted November 24, 2008 Man I hope you get over yourself at some point because you're the reason EduGeek just lost an EduSupporter. You've done nothing for this forum except present how members should not conduct themselves. 1
My220x Posted November 24, 2008 Posted November 24, 2008 (edited) Whilst I agree in principle, I think that there are always ways to speak in private to members whose posts lead you to believe that they can help you with your particular 'sensitive' issue. At one point I was in favour of removing students but I have come to realise that they are able to get the info elsewhere and that most of them on this site are genuinely here because they want to learn about IT, not be subversive. And...... Where does he tell anyone how to do there job? Edited January 1, 2009 by tarquel removing part of witch's quote as per the snip of her original post
GrumbleDook Posted November 24, 2008 Posted November 24, 2008 Ok folks ... discussion is over right now. People need to think carefully about this. Someone raised an idea and it has become a tad opinionated in responses. It is a meta-discussion ... and these tend to get a little heated. I think we should take a breather, give it a week and then if we want to come back to a reasonable discussion then we will look at it again. Remember that this is an online medium ... it is sometimes easy to lose some of the unread meaning that would work better over a pint in the pub. 3
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