WiFi On roof, are we allowed?

[Daleus]

our ICT co-ordinator is on a mission.

 

He is going to use the grant we got from the LEA to buy eeepc's (or similar) for the children and let the parents pay for them for £2/week or something similar.

 

Now, we're in a fairly tiny village and as scary as it is, only a fraction of children have internet access at home.

 

So he had this idea, "Can't we put a transmitter thing on the roof", an idea I dismissed straight away, Expensive, Low Range etc etc.

 

Then we saw this

 

The roof of the school looks over the entire village, so something like this would be great, obviously sectioned off from our own network, limited, filtered, mac filtered and obviously WPA-PSK (or some exotic) security should keep it relatively mongrel-free, I thought about connecting it to a smoothwall box.

 

But the big question is, can we put a big rockin' transmitter on the roof? it's not that big in all fairness and only half the size of your average Microwave transmitter/receiver

 

Thanks, Daleus

 

*edit*

 

I couldn't find anything like this on the council website and the main google matches we're regarding "FM" transmissions and prosecution for pirate radio, My Google-Fu is weak today.

 

Furthermore a local hotel in Skipton has one of those beasties on the roof with a directional antenna at another village to give that entire village wireless internet, It was setup by some bill oddie types from the village, so its not 'illegal'

[plexer]

100mw output limit in europe I think.

 

Ben

[JJonas]

I think american Wifi works on a slightly different range of frequencies. I believe there is some overlap but you might not get all channels.

 

What about Wimax is that something that could be installed in a school?

[Geoff]

only if you're unlicensed. If you get a license you can transmit at 1Mw. However don't expect anyone's wireless phone/microwave/radio controlled car/walkie talkie to work anywhere near the school.

 

No, you will be better off going the wimax route.

 

Camberley Computers - Wireless : VoIP : PoE : Networking

 

You still need a license though.

 

Perhaps these on the client end?

 

http://www.supergps.co.uk/nokia-n810-internet-tablet-wimax-edition-uk-qwerty-p-3353.html

[Daleus]

The internet tablets are a nice idea, but we aren't just using the laptops for internet, there is also a bunch of edu apps going to be installed.

 

It doesn't matter if the transmitter knocks everyone elses stuff out, as I said we're out in the sticks, and as long as it doesn't knock out candles, they'll never notice.

 

Well thanks for the replies, as long as its technically possible, i'll leave it with him, I'm sure he'll decide against it in the end when he realises his budget doesn't go so far..

[Andrew_C]

If you get a license you can transmit at 1Mw.

Only if you are the BBC. 1 Mega Watt is the power that is used at Crystal Palace.

 

MW = Mega Watt

mW = Milli Watt

[brookesandrew]

You could use a mesh with something like the Proxim ORiNOCO AP-4000 dual radio access points, I believe a Coventry company Daconi (Daconi Wireless LANs Home Page) are working with Coventry University and some local businesses to set up mesh networks using the 802.11a as the wireless backbone and the 802.11b/g for client access. If you could fit something like this in the school and peoples homes or local businesses (Post Office, Pub, local garage etc.) you should, with a bit of planning get full village coverage I would have thought.

[localzuk]

You could use a mesh with something like the Proxim ORiNOCO AP-4000 dual radio access points, I believe a Coventry company Daconi (Daconi Wireless LANs Home Page) are working with Coventry University and some local businesses to set up mesh networks using the 802.11a as the wireless backbone and the 802.11b/g for client access. If you could fit something like this in the school and peoples homes or local businesses (Post Office, Pub, local garage etc.) you should, with a bit of planning get full village coverage I would have thought.

 

That's how i'd do it. This company makes a perfect device just for this sort of thing: Meraki infrastructure is your complete solution for deploying wireless networks of any size.

 

The devices themselves simply needed to be in range of another device (in a mesh with one or more being connected to the network to be available) and they need power, and that's it. They are relatively inexpensive too.

[dhicks]

He is going to use the grant we got from the LEA to buy eeepc's (or similar)

 

OLPC? That has built-in wireless mesh networking. If I understand correctly it used standard 802.11 hardware, too, it just swapped range for bandwidth and allowed laptops to connect to each other.

 

--

David Hicks

[farmerste]

do the people near by know you are going to 'microwave' them? they might object to the radiation, i would have thought you'd need planning permission for something like that.

after all is you were to try and erect a cellphone station in said location, you'd surely need to apply for permission.

[localzuk]

do the people near by know you are going to 'microwave' them? they might object to the radiation, i would have thought you'd need planning permission for something like that.

after all is you were to try and erect a cellphone station in said location, you'd surely need to apply for permission.

 

If a mast is being added to an existing building, and it and its equipment take up less than 2.5 cubic meters then no planning permission is required.

 

And also, the people nearby wouldn't be 'microwaved'. That is just random opinion at the moment, as there is no conclusive evidence that wifi does anything to anyone.

[RobFuller]

Even if you got permission to put this monster up, how do you expect the laptops tiny aerial to transmit the information back!!

[torledo]

I'd echo Rob's comments....

 

Have you thought about how you'll get that wireless signals into homes and back upstream, as it sounds like this project is to be a rudimentary last mile access solution for the pupils to work on their eees from home. Something like an outdoor patch antenna at the customer premise end may be needed - and what about bandwidth for a P2MP solution like this, i doubt any of the solutions you could go in the unlicensed range would provide any kind of mobility for the end users.

 

Even if you could get a wimax license, and i don't know how expensive or easy they are to get hold of, it would be for fixed wimax therefore no mobility, fixed antennas required on the outside of homes. At the moment i've heard very little on small rural wireless delpoyments using wimax...maybe i'm not looking in the right place for case studies. Just assumed wimax was a huge white elephant

 

Agree with localzuk mesh sounds like your best option as it's designed specifically for this sort of rural community wifi. Although i'd imagine it has the same issues as highlighted in the first paragraph.

[tmcd35]

There is also the question of the EULA with your ISP. Are you allowed to relay internet access across the village?

 

In terms of WiMAX, how many users can 1 antenna comfortably support support at any one time? Also, how much do the NICs cost to add WiMAX support to the PC's/Laptops in question?

[farmerste]

in response to your proof requirements that wifi ( and other non-ionising radiation ) etc cause damage to cells, this has been scientifically proven to occur.

Mobiles, and wi-fi break down the dna of cells in the same way that ionising radiation does, just at a much reduced rate.

 

The hope here, is that the immune system of the individual is in a good state, and can repair the cells so as the radiation appears to do no harm, but long term ?????????

 

if you look at another thread i started a while ago :-

 

http://www.edugeek.net/forums/networks/19089-wifi-power-levels-compared-mobile-phones-2.html

 

you'll see that although that thread is very much a 'learning curve' and some parts are wrong, it still contains some good links to find answers, perhaps the best thing you could listen to is the .mp3 radio capture, i suggest you burn it to a cd, and listen to it in your car??

 

http://www.buergerwelle.de/pdf/the_science_of_rfr_health_risks.mp3

 

i have also attached a document that gives links to the research done, and names of the individuals/organisations involved. ( i dont particularly think this is an unbiased view, but the document has some good points )

 

i am quite happy to be wrong about this, certainly the argument about mobile phones causing cancer could be quickly and cheaply resolved by the government allowing people access to the 'cancer postcode' database it holds, but it will not do this, cover up perhaps???

 

basically the following microwave devices damage human cells, i will try to list them in the order of most damaging first :-

 

mobile phone masts

DECT cordless phones

mobile phones

wifi access points

wifi devices

bluetooth

etc

 

you may say that the amount of damage done is negligeable, but another very alarming fact is that when you are asleep, your body does most of its 'repairs', but when exposed to this radiation , 'the repair process' gradually slows down, and that allows cancer cells to take hold and multiply.

Leaflets_Making_Us_Sick[1].pdf

With all of the recent coverage of WiFi networks and mobile phone base stations.doc

[FragglePete]

Take a look at FramBroadband. This is a Wifi system routed around the small town of Framlingham in Suffolk where my Mum lives. Which is the same that you are trying to achieve I guess.

 

I don't think it's a used now as it was a while back since Broadband took hold, but this is a WiFi system that has a number of Antennas dotted around the village on top of things like the local pub, post office, etc.

 

You purchased an external antenna (Linksys AP) and they fitted it for you, this was pointed at your nearest AP and the MAC address of your AP was entered into the system.

 

When is worked it was pretty good, but it did suffer a number of drop outs and speed was always an issue with it. It suited my Mum at the time as she was a warden in sheltered housing, so she couldn't do anything with the phone line. She's since moved out into her own house and now has Broadband.

 

HTH

 

Pete

[SYNACK]

On a technical note I also think that the mesh solution is probably the best solution with the least technical and legal hurdles to overcome. I would probably be using WPA with radius though so that each user can have their own username and password. Without this the single code could be spread around and there would be no easy way to track or remove users if they were to begin to cause trouble - downloading illegal stuff etc.

[Daleus]

Thank you for all the replies.

 

The mesh system is obviously the better route, rather than irradiating (and irritating) the entire village.