Elmer1 Posted December 14, 2015 Posted December 14, 2015 In the P8 guidance it says: "English qualifications - If a student sits both English language and English literature, the higher grade is double-weighted in the English slot. The lower grade can count in a slot in the ‘open’ element of subjects (not in the EBacc element)." My question is, can they still be double-weighted even if the student fails to gain a grade in one? If anyone has documentation which addresses this I'd appreciated being pointed in the right direction. Thanks
tombry Posted December 15, 2015 Posted December 15, 2015 Just has to sit them from all the models I've seen.
bobsmith Posted December 15, 2015 Posted December 15, 2015 so a Grade U will mean that the result will count while an "X" will not. No result (X) indicates a result is not being issued because you were absent for all parts of the exam or because of a decision not to issue a result for another reason. The subject will not appear on a certificate.
LosOjos Posted December 15, 2015 Posted December 15, 2015 Yes, that's how I understand it. So it's worth putting all your students in for Lit even if they're not expected to do very well, so that their English grade will be doubled. New system, different game!
tombry Posted December 15, 2015 Posted December 15, 2015 My head of English refuses to do it with our lowest set - feels it does them a disservice, and will do more to harm their English grade - I'm not entirely sure where I sit with it, I'll wait and see what our figures look like after the first real year of it.
hschram Posted December 16, 2015 Posted December 16, 2015 it is a no brainer from a school perspective to enter every year 11 student for both exams. I just want to echo what has already been said in this thread. Tombry - tell your head of English that by not letting these students sit the lit exam you are effectively damaging the students overall figures as well as the schools. A quick word with the Head would help to back you up.
tombry Posted December 16, 2015 Posted December 16, 2015 I think the Head and the Assistant Head would both agree with the Head of English though - and in many ways so do I - I think it's a ridiculous position to put schools in.
bobsmith Posted January 20, 2016 Posted January 20, 2016 In my last school our bottom set was put in for entry level english rather than GCSE, obviously worth diddly squat to the school. The reasons given were similar, that it was in the child's best interest to do the easier course. However one day the english teacher who actually taught them decided to give them a go at GCSE, they did much better than expected and we actually got a grade B out of one of them! Sometimes you create a self fulfilling prophecy if you set your expectations too low.
tombry Posted January 21, 2016 Posted January 21, 2016 Yeah we're still having the discussion, the bigger issue for us is we have a very big literacy problem (comes from the lower schools, we had a kid join us last year, at 13, with a reading age of 6, he is now reading at a 10 year old's level), so our bottom (two in year 9) sets have extra literacy time - they essentially will have English and Maths, no Ebaccs, and maybe 2 other GCSEs. it's very frustrating when nobody wants to develop a curriculum for them.
hschram Posted January 22, 2016 Posted January 22, 2016 This new system is a step in the right direction to favour students with low reading ability etc. since now the main focus will be on Progress 8 were you got 3 buckets that could essentially be filled with anything that counts i.e subjects were reading level does not hinder such as Music and PE. As important as the English and Maths qualifications are the EBACC to me has been down graded with the new P8. This also favours you as a school since if your intake had very low KS2 results it should be easier to gain an overall positive P8 score. Remember that a negative P8 score will most definitely trigger an inspection or put you on that list.
ajp233 Posted January 22, 2016 Posted January 22, 2016 At the last school I worked in all of the students were entered for English Lit and were told that they needed to go into the exams and write their names on the answer booklet and then they could just remain seated for the duration of the paper!!!!
bigdannyb79 Posted January 23, 2016 Posted January 23, 2016 They just need an entry for both lang and lit so I can see some schools entering them by default just to get the double weighting. I agree with on some levels as it's setting a Base standard that they want all students cover. But that doesn't mean anything if kids aren't being taught anything and just being entered for the exam! A negative p8 won't trigger inspections or adding to a list. By its very nature zero is in line with average attainment nationally ,so the 50th percentile they won't be looking at every school who's average attainment is slightly below national levels. The floor is -0.5 for a reason.
tombry Posted January 27, 2016 Posted January 27, 2016 @hschram - P8 is a step in the right direction, the issue we have is that the low attainers will not even fill the other buckets because of all the extra literacy/numeracy lessons they have. They'll end up with a single science (I'm working on getting them on double instead), maths, english, and maybe one option (that counts) - by my count, that's 5 grades divided by 10 - I have kids that we're seeing estimates of A8 scores in the 1/2s, and some of our students are looking at P8 scores of -1.1. This is obviously an issue with my school, and not the system, but it's frustrating that I've been banging on about it for 3 years now, and nobody has actually done anything about it.
Corvidae Posted February 12, 2016 Posted February 12, 2016 I've had confirmation back from the DfE that the students only need sit both exams to qualify for double weighting, even if they get a U in one of them. Needless to say, most schools in my area are entering all students for both even if they were not taught English Lit. I expect that little loop hole won't be present next year.
hschram Posted February 15, 2016 Posted February 15, 2016 @tombry - Have you heard of the ECDL qualification? It is run by the British Computing Society and is like an intense course in word and excel etc. It is graded like a BTEC and we enter every student onto the course that we believe needs the extra boost. Might be worth looking at it to help to get your average up. Also if pupils do well in this and managed to get a M grade it acts as a confidence boost. Here is a link for the qualification ECDL | IT user qualifications | Qualifications and Certifications | BCS - The Chartered Institute for IT
Ecclesbury Posted February 15, 2016 Posted February 15, 2016 I'm speculating a bit here, but performance figures do not stand alone as a school judgement. Whether schools agree with it or not the government feel that English Literature is a subject that all students should study. If schools enter students for English Lit without teaching the subject then yes they will boost their headline measure, but when OfSted come knocking they are presumably going to ask why there is no English Literature actually being taught. As an extreme hypothetical example, imagine that there was a loophole that meant all students could get an automatic A* in Maths without having to actually study the subject. Should a school go ahead and exploit the loophole? The eduspeak phrase that I'm fighting vainly to avoid is 'moral accountability' Then again I'm perhaps giving OfSted too much credit for their level of scrutiny!
bobsmith Posted February 22, 2016 Posted February 22, 2016 I'd be gobsmacked if there was a school where nobody did English Literature. While I've worked in schools where the students get entered for it even when they haven't explicitly covered the work, it was always just a handful of kids in the bottom set - not the entire cohort. As data managers our job is to advise on things like these loopholes - the headteacher carries the responsibility on the morals of using them or not. I've personally fought for kids to be taught it before being entered, but whichever way the school goes with it you've got to let them know what they can and cannot do.
CAM Posted February 23, 2016 Posted February 23, 2016 Entering native speakers of a language for a GCSE in that language always made me chuckle.
NormalDistribution Posted February 23, 2016 Posted February 23, 2016 Hence why a new census item has appeared. Expect that loophole to be closed.
CAM Posted February 23, 2016 Posted February 23, 2016 Not another item! I'm going to guess this is the autumn census which is full enough as it is! Got any more information on this please?
Seb1780 Posted February 23, 2016 Posted February 23, 2016 I've heard there will be a requirement to provide the Country of Birth and Nationality for all pupils. Note, this is Nationality not Ethnicity, so a whole new field. [EDIT] Also, we will need to provide "proficiency in english" - whatever that means!!
CAM Posted February 23, 2016 Posted February 23, 2016 So....check the passports of every student in the school? Nice. :/ And if it's intended for closing the native speaker GCSE loophole, will they want a record of what GCSE courses are being taken just like Post-16? Hope not!
simrac Posted February 24, 2016 Author Posted February 24, 2016 Yep, that's right, a quick Google got me here: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/488937/RFC_856_new_data_items_country_of_birth_and_nationality.pdf
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