studio Posted December 10, 2014 Posted December 10, 2014 Hi all, I'm just wondering if anyone else has seen differences in what their Value Added was reported as in Raise and what you expected it to be. We use Sisra for analytics, and our VA in Raise is completely different. I have done all the calculations through the Raise Ready Reckoners and it appears that Raise is calculating this correctly. Just wondered if anyone has had any similar experiences? Thanks
LosOjos Posted December 10, 2014 Posted December 10, 2014 We're trying to get to the bottom of an issue with our Raise VA. In English, Raise is reporting we have a significantly negative VA, yet we were 6% above national average for A*-C and 5% above for 3 LOP - I can't understand for the life of me how we can be both above average and have a negative VA
mark80 Posted December 10, 2014 Posted December 10, 2014 @Studio - our SISRA is completely off with regards VA @LosOjos - If you had a particularly bright KS2 starting point for your Y11?
LosOjos Posted December 10, 2014 Posted December 10, 2014 @mark80 - we didn't have a particularly strong KS2 intake but even if we did, our 3LOP was above national average so surely our VA should be positive too?
gazskeltz Posted December 10, 2014 Posted December 10, 2014 I had to order some more green ink for my printer...
Shaner88 Posted December 10, 2014 Posted December 10, 2014 The DfE have changed their methodology this year and seem to be aligning it towards the Progress 8 methodology. They describe it all in the manual in the RAISE library.
tombry Posted December 11, 2014 Posted December 11, 2014 SISRA would also be using last years coeffecients and the like to figure it out, as they wouldn't have this year's yet right? Mine was off (in a good way) - but I expected it because my spreadsheet uses the old figures (we don't have SISRA). I just need the data management page to open up so I can put our remarks in and improve things.
mark80 Posted December 12, 2014 Posted December 12, 2014 ^^ You are right tombry, i have just looked at the ReadyRecknors on RAISE and their starting points for VA expectations are the new Progress/Attainment 8 ones eg 4.2, 5.1, rather than last years who was using Average Fine Point Score from KS2 results. SISRA obviously have got these in place
cct72 Posted December 15, 2014 Posted December 15, 2014 SISRA is still using 2013 coeffs so all the VA figures will be out. DfE have totally changed their method (without warning anyone)!
MattMitchell Posted December 15, 2014 Posted December 15, 2014 @cct72 - the coefficients are different, but the method looks the same to me, on a quick scan of the ready reckoner. The methodology did change, but I've not seen anything to suggest the ready reckoner is going anywhere near progress 8. The figures I can see are all old-style best-8 points.
mark80 Posted December 16, 2014 Posted December 16, 2014 All they have done on the ready reckenor is instead of using the fine points of KS2 as a starting point it divides by 6 in order to give the new Prog 8 starting point. Am i right in thinking that the main difference to Best 8 and Prog/Attainment 8 is the that Prog/Attainment 8 gives you less freedom when it comes to getting your results in? Everything else appears to be the same? Old style VA & New Prog 8 are both about adding value to an expected score based on a KS2 starting point. One of the benefits i can see is that U grades are now relative points value to other grades so those schools who get hit hard on U grade students are not disproportionately penalised
Banjo Posted January 27, 2015 Posted January 27, 2015 @mark80 - we didn't have a particularly strong KS2 intake but even if we did, our 3LOP was above national average so surely our VA should be positive too? LosOjos: You have to remember that VA is based on your cohorts prior attainment set against a similar set of pupils progress nationally. Yes, on average your cohort made more than 3LP, but nationally similar pupils made" a lot more" than 3LP. It was pupils dissimilar to your cohort nationally that made less than 3LP, that then shows your school to be above the national for 3LP but have Neg VA.
mark80 Posted January 28, 2015 Posted January 28, 2015 This is one problem when comparing VA with LOP. Levels of progress are concerned with a whole grade whlie VA works on points to 2 decimal places. This figures are completely made up to prove a point. A student has a KS2 APS of 30.68, RAISE then projects that the following English Expectation for 3LOP - Grade C Maths Expectation for 3LOP - Grade C English VA Expectation = 42.6 Maths VA Expectation = 41.9 So the student hits a grade C (40 points) in both they both count in your 3 LOP analysis, however they end up with a negative VA for English of -2.6 and Maths -1.9 as C's are only worth 40 points If you are really unfortunate you have a lot of kids with mid/high level VA expectations. Put this across other subjects for a whole year group and you can do well on headline figures but fall short on VA
NormalDistribution Posted January 28, 2015 Author Posted January 28, 2015 Hi mark, Well put. I am under the impression that at individual student level you can only get for example 40 or 46 etc, i.e. the KS4 APS does not reflect the marks on the paper ergo, somoene who is one mark from a B or just into the C range still gets 40 points? is that correct. Therefore at individual student level the +/- VA is interesting but really VA needs to be considered across cohorts where you need the balance of students achieving positive and negative VA. Is this right?
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