CRB Cunnighams Cashless catering - Facial recognition

[Spookyville]

Read the thread in the Security forum which is 3 years old now. Time has moved on and so ha technology. Any schools out there that have already rolled out this and if so how is it going? Any pitfalls (aside from the pushback form parents in relation to consent of course)?

 

On the back of the change of catering supplier for our kitchen we have just made the decision to ditch Civica (poor support) and start afresh with Cunninghams. The facial recognition does appeal to the HT as the main issue we have the speed of service using the biometrics currently so we are going for it.

[haci]

I've only just returned to work recently and on my return they informed me this had been rolled out.

initial reports seem favorable and much better and faster than the fingerprint readers which always seemed to have issues.

 

Literally only 1 week into it though but not had any negative feedback so far.

[sigma]

As a parent, I wold be exercising my right to object to this.

[haci]

As a parent, I wold be exercising my right to object to this.

 

Just out of curiosity what would your objection to it be?

[localzuk]

Remember, with biometrics of any kind (which includes facial recognition), you legally must have active consent from a parent and a child can also object, overruling their parent's consent.

[sigma]

Mainly the idea of normalising facial recognition for children so that they become compliant adults.

 

Also privacy, tracking and being certain where all aspects of the data collected associated with it will end up.

Edited June 25, 2024 by sigma

[synaesthesia]

Legally there is zero difference to fingerprinting - it's biometrics. Morally it's a little different, as fingerprinting you need to be physically present and usually aware of what you're doing, whereas facial recognition is a different ball game. Explicit consent absolutely required and don't just throw it in with fingerprinting.

[Rob_D]

Mainly the idea of normalising facial recognition for children so that they become compliant adults.

Also privacy, tracking and being certain where all aspects of the data collected associated with it will end up.

Not to get off topic... but what about those shops that use Facewatch?

[localzuk]

Not to get off topic... but what about those shops that use Facewatch?

Schools have a separate requirement when it comes to biometrics - the Protection of Freedoms Act. Shops aren't covered by it AFAIK, they just have to focus on UK GDPR, and the ICO has ruled Facewatch to be legal as it has a legitimate purpose of detecting and preventing crime.

[sigma]

A BBC report. https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-58969136

 

Report from 2022 focussing on the use of biometric data in UK schools. https://defenddigitalme.org/research/state-biometrics-2022/

[Sylv3r]

I vaguely remember an article from the DfE - they are not saying schools can / can't use facial recognition and are leaving it for them to decide. Which I thought was a bit strange. I'll see if I can dig it out. We aren't using facial recognition in our schools, but have considered it. There was kickback from parents a few years ago from another local school in the area and I think they eventually withdrew it and moved to fingerprint instead.

[Sylv3r]

DfE Biometric Guidelines

 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1092507/Biometrics_Guidance_July_2022.pdf

 

Schools withdrawing facial recognition

 

https://schoolsweek.co.uk/facial-recognition-systems-off-the-menu-as-schools-reverse-plans/

[synaesthesia]

The ICO are famous for their use of language to ensure they can never be seen as giving absolutes - they rarely say "you must not" and "never" or "you must". It's always "we recommend" and "you should". The ICO will say it's overkill of course - they don't actually know WHY it could be useful. They don't actually understand the time and issues fingerprinting has, especially when you're rushing through hundreds of kids in a small time frame. The school canteen is not McDonalds.

For facial recognition, it's easy to say opt in or opt out but if some people use it then the technology must be enabled and present.

You could argue you already have the ability in place if you have CCTV, but in this case it's more the software behind it even if it is just a single button click.

[GrumbleDook]

Facial recognition has 3 problems and the last report from DefendDigitalMe pretty much nails most of the concerns about approaches.

The original push on this was very clear that this was a new tool and clever SLTs should get on board asap.

In reality, only the benefits were looked at and for some schools the view was, "well, we already use their finger prints, so we know biometrics can be ok".

 

• Normalising security measures through the public sector
  
• Removing perception of risk
  
• Putting the school before the individuals.
  

 

These are things to look at and deal with, though. If you have a clear purpose for why you are using facial recognition, it is also clearly of benefit to the individuals, you are taking measures to reduce risks/possible harms, you are transparent with all involved ... then it can be made to work.

 

However, no matter what you do when you put it in, you need to have non-intrusive alternatives and also be clear about why those are not suitable for what you are trying to do, but they are an available compromise. Remember, the general rule is that if you can be less intrusive for the same thing, then you *should be* less intrusive.

 

So, what does it look like in reality? A school is desperate to make sure that all students get lunch. It is autumn/winter, and more and more students want hot food. The queues are increasing, and it is almost impossible to get them all through, never mind having enough time to eat properly. Even if it shaves off 2 seconds per student, then 15 students equal half a minute. A class is a full minute, an 8-form entry secondary school (where half are on hot lunches), that could save 4 minutes per year, which suddenly becomes 20 minutes across the school.

 

Students have enough time to eat, have a bit of R&R, and maybe even do an extra-curricular activity. These are for the benefit of the students.

Without the checks and balances about the usage, security, respect for privacy ... then the other part of the implementation is lost. Instilling respect for privacy (the school models and the children follow), clear communications ...

 

I hope this breakdown is found to be helpful.

[localzuk]

My biggest concern with any form of biometrics in school is the quality of the systems using it. And, I think we can all agree that cashless catering systems are generally not the best. I've used a number of them now, and each time the underlying software has been poor, the database generally insecure, etc... I'm not sure I'd trust such a software provider to handle such important data.