Home Heating setups

[timbo343]

I've not got a Hive or a Nest or any other Smart heating control. I've not got a Smart meter either.

 

Ive got a 10 year old Ideal+ 30 boiler in a 3 bed semi with 8 biggish double radiators off it, the only place that doesnt have a radiator (and i'm regretting putting there now) is on the landing. I've got 1 programmable thermosat control which is in the hall way which controls all the radiators up and downstairs.

 

All radiators have a manual TRV and a lockshield on.

 

Given the cold spell we're going through / we've had, what would you say is the best way to run a home heating system given the above setup?

 

I've always gone with the "turn it on when needed" approach. What i mean by this is, my weekly heating programme is set up like this..

 

Heating thermosat is set at around 17.4°C. The system will get to 17.4°C and steady trickle up to 17.8°C for some reason and then turn off - i'm not sure why, it's always turned the boiler off 0.4°C.

 

The boiler temp output on the radiators is set manully to 60°C however when the thermosat gets close to it's temperature (i think it's within 1°C) it automatically drops the heat output down to around 45°C - this is it's "efficiency mode".

 

The house has all double glazed windows. Bathroom & kitchen windows have thermal roller blinds on them and the kitchen french doors have a roller blind too. The rest of the windows have curtains on them.

The attic has at least 300mm of insulation and is boarded on top. The attic loft hatch is insulated too.

 

With that in mind the heating schedule has been set up as the following:

 

M - F: On at 6.10am / off at 7am | On at 4pm / off at 10pm

Sat: On at 8am / off at 9am | On at 4pm / off at 10pm

Sun: On at 8am / off at 9.30am | On at 4pm / off at 10pm

 

For years ive had it set like this until last night i have a thought, is this really the best setup for my heating?

 

Last night was the first night i decided to slightly turn down the thermosat heating to 16.4°C, leave it set to "Run" and see what happens. I heard the hrating kick in a coupleof times but i dont know how many times and what with not having a smart meter im unable to tell just how often it kicked in, i should have set a camera up facing the boiler.

 

Is the above time schedule really the best approach? I ask myself that as in the last couple of days, the heating has come on at 4pm and the house (well hall way) doesn't actually get to temperature until 3 hours later as thr hall temperature has been falling to 14°C - that doesn't mean the rest of the house is at 14°C. It takes about an hour per degree to heat up the house and what with the hall being the coldest place too. Goliven the fact thay the boiler will be heating the radiators at 60°C for nearly 2 hours.

 

Or is it best to have a heating system set to Run all the time and let the thermosat top up the heating when required with the radiator trickling heat to the radiators at 45°C when required.

 

Thinking about it the latter seems to be the best approach but after years of doing it one way, it's had to convince myself that the other way is better. I suppose the only way i'd know is to get a smart meter.

[tom_newton]

I've been reasonably happy with Hive.

Not too "smart". I just leave the heating "on" the whole time but schedule temperature changes.

Main gripe is our bedroom rad is behind the curtains (I cant convince my wife shorter curtains are appropriate) and so the thermostatic valve reads way lower than the "true" temp in the room.

 

I suspect your heating "overrunns" the target temp so it doesnt immediately drop below and go into "bang bang" where the heating goes on and off rapidly.

[robyholmes]

We use Tado controls currently, both for boiler control but also smart TVRs as well. We're happy with it, but we don't have enough radiator capacity and adding more would be a pain. So we're opting to go to air to air heat pump. Air Con as most people would call it.

 

However back to your question. I'd have a look at videos by Heat Geek on YouTube. Most are on heat pump setups but he's also done a number on combi boilers and how to best use them. The all on low and slow may well be better than per control room like we have. Especially if you boiler can work on a flow curve.

[Davit2005]

In a council flat with a combo boiler (simple old fashioned timer dial) and basic thermostat (old dial type), can't really do much

 

Have a Elec smart meter but the remote display telling how much has been used has not worked in 5 years, given up speaking to British Gas about it.

[supportman]

I had hive in my last place, worked well and adjusted the temperature with a simple schedule.

 

Interestingly I just moved back into a flat with electric only heating and its really cheap compared. I think the main reason is the lack of a standing charge for Gas since they went up so much it makes a big difference.

[dmj]

Having similar thoughts myself. We put in Nest about 8 yrs ago and I've been happy with it up to now.

My next project will be to build a Wifi7 Router that has home-assistant installed.

It will probably be based on a BPI-R4.

 

The idea would be to use home-assistant compatible radiator valves so that I can control the temperature per room to reduce costs.

[HarryMonkey]

I have a Tado setup. Unfortunately we have no thermostats on the radiators (rented bungalow so stuck with that), I have a wireless smart thermostat in the lounge (as that's where we spend most of the time) so have a schedule set up for M-F and a separate one for the weekends. I like the fact that I can control it all from my phone as well as linking it in with Alexa ("Alexa, set the heating to 18.5"), I can also control it remotely, so If i'm going to be home late/early I can tweak the timing/temp from my car/work.

 

I think the whole thing (starter kit) cost me around £85 from Screwfix. The benefit being you can add to it as the funds/requirements allow.

 

It was very straightforward to install and gives me a level of scheduling way above that of my boiler thermostat as well as the remote adjustment. If you have TRVs, these can be easily replaced with Tado ones that can link into the system and controlled/scheduled individually.

[Davit2005]

Cameron Gray has a YouTube channel where he has covered this. I would suggest that if you are not comfortable doing this work get a professional of course :-)

 

Electrics I am more than happy, I know my limits but been in an upstairs flat dealing with water I'm not comfortable with.

[howartp]

Installed Hive at my partners house in October.

 

All radiators have their TRV, set at an appropriate temperature for the room all day; they are not allowed to 'call for heat' so only actually warm up when the boiler is scheduled on.

 

We then schedule the boiler according to our day (she works strange shifts and i'm not yet living there full time).

 

We're pretty good at knocking it down if we go out eg to theatre when it would normally be on, then back on as we're driving home.

 

Alexa can also control it/boost it though we've not played with the appropriate voice controls for that yet.

[HarryMonkey]

It was very straightforward to install

 

I forgot to mention that Tado will provide instructions tailored to your particular boiler, just send them the make and model.

[Roberto]

I have Drayton Wiser home heating, which is the standard 'smart' boiler control and 'smart' TRVs on all the radiators in our rooms.

 

Not sure I'd buy Wiser again - nothing wrong with it, but it doesn't work with my Apple Home stuff and it doesn't seem to have taken off in quite the same way that Tado and Hive have. I thoroughly reccomend smart heating in general, especially if you're a bit older and maybe have a home that's sized for children but only have them here occasionally as grown up visitors now, so you don't need the heating on full blast in all your rooms all the time. Lets you manage your costs, lets you centrally see what temperature your rooms are at, and only heat the rooms that you need to heat.

[Andrew_C]

I'm with Wiser too. Chose it because a) Geofencing wasn't going to work for us, so why spend money on it? and b) TRVs were a LOT cheaper than the other brands.

 

It is capable of controlling OpenTherm boilers, but my boiler isn't. This would moderate flow temperatures to avoid over-heating and hysteresis issues.

 

Got a couple of "Smart Plugs" too - schedule, or manual control of the electric blankets - nice warm bed to get into.

 

Please with it overall, the interface can be a bit laggy. There is a way, difficult to repeat, of setting a room accidently at 30+

[HarryMonkey]

es.

 

Got a couple of "Smart Plugs" too - schedule, or manual control of the electric blankets - nice warm bed to get into.

 

Life savers

[Marci]

Built my own about 12 years ago using Domoticz, Homebridge (and the Homebridge-eDomoticz plugin) and Raspberry Pi with an RFXTRX433e transceiver and an old FujituSeimens radio-based room thermostat. Haven't had a need to change or update it since...

Geofencing and all the other features comes via AppleHomeKit (as long as you have an iPad or AppleTV at home which operates as an external bridge), with no subscriptions or reliance on external services. Allows me to construct a custom thermostat based on individual room temperatures or house averages or floor averages that control heating, portable aircon, heated sofa covers and a few other bits based on conditional rules etc.

 

Have tried both methods - on all the time and low, vs timed (pretty much as per OPs schedule & temp settings).

 

Former always ends up costing more than the latter. Former keeps you warmer than the latter.

Edited January 18, 2024 by Marci

[Marci]

I have Drayton Wiser home heating, which is the standard 'smart' boiler control and 'smart' TRVs on all the radiators in our rooms.

 

Not sure I'd buy Wiser again - nothing wrong with it, but it doesn't work with my Apple Home stuff and it doesn't seem to have taken off in quite the same way that Tado and Hive have. I thoroughly reccomend smart heating in general, especially if you're a bit older and maybe have a home that's sized for children but only have them here occasionally as grown up visitors now, so you don't need the heating on full blast in all your rooms all the time. Lets you manage your costs, lets you centrally see what temperature your rooms are at, and only heat the rooms that you need to heat.

 

Raspberry Pi (or Synology NAS, or... lots of platforms compatible with Homebridge) + Homebridge + the Homebridge Drayton/Wiser plugin... then just add the Homebridge instance to your current home in Homekit. (There are GoogleHome & Alexa homebridge plugins to then tie it into other platforms too) - there are a selection of Wiser plugins out there.

Edited January 18, 2024 by Marci

[MatthewL]

I got a Hive a few years back, I've integrated it with Home Assistant and can manage my on/off via that based on different things, I need to invest some time to properly sort it but the proof of concept and rules I setup worked but needed fine tuning, I wanted to expand my Home Assistant setup to be a bit more advanced but again down to time.

[flyinghaggis]

I have Drayton Wiser home heating, which is the standard 'smart' boiler control and 'smart' TRVs on all the radiators in our rooms.

 

 

Are Drayton Wiser devices suitable for use in a larger business/school with multiple users and buildings/sites or are they just for home use?

 

Our facilities manager has asked us to look into installing one to manage the heating in one of our school sites?

Edited February 26, 2025 by flyinghaggis

[Andrew_C]

I don't think (as a home user) that it is going to scale nicely. You could probably do it, but it would be a fudge, and tedious to set up/alter schedules. Add in the joy of replacing AA batteries in each TRV about once a year...

 

That said - they may do a more commercial version.

[Davit2005]

Home Assistant is a great call and has come on in leaps and bounds. Automate heat depending on room presence. Automate lights based on time and what activity is in the room, etc. Switch off and monitor smart plugs.

 

Using Zigbee you have no need for an app to setup the device to WiFi which can be a royal PITA, jus make sure the Zigbee bridge is in join mode and press the button on the Zigbee device. Also Zigbee can use non-battery powered Zigbee devices to provide a mesh network.

[Roberto]

Are Drayton Wiser devices suitable for use in a larger business/school with multiple users and buildings/sites or are they just for home use?

 

Our facilities manager has asked us to look into installing one to manage the heating in one of our school sites?

 

I really couldn't say. I doubt it to be honest, it's meant to work with the kind of simple boilers you get in most homes. I would be surprised if there wasn't a commercial version aimed at commercial heating systems for businesses out there somewhere however.

[Andrew_C]

I would be surprised if there wasn't a commercial version aimed at commercial heating systems for businesses out there somewhere however.

BMS systems all over the place - but far from simple (or cheap). Wiser will do "OpenTherm" if you boiler supports it.

[Roberto]

BMS systems all over the place - but far from simple (or cheap). Wiser will do "OpenTherm" if you boiler supports it.

 

Yeah, I got involved in BMS systems stuff when I was still at the college but that's beginning to be a long time ago and I've got no idea of the current state of play. I do remember the complexity and expense though...