Strike

[alexknight]

But how do you stop them striking on your behalf if you don't want them to?

 

You can't.

 

Mind you it would be nice to hear that if there is an increase in the pay award that it will only go to those that have demonstated that they are prepared to take action over their pay and conditions!

 

Live long and prosper

 

Alex

[Gatt]

Ok lets get one thing clear

 

I am in Unison but im not striking because....

 

1) I didn't ge a ballot paper

2) only 13 PERCENT of Unison members voted, out of that only 55 PERCENT said "yes - we'll strike" - now my maths isn't great but thats what - about 7.5 percent (give or take) of Unison Members?

3) Most Importantly... Like most other people here, I have Bills to pay each month, I also have to feed my family - (Me, My Wife, my 14 Month old son, and 2 dogs).. I can ONLY JUST do this on a full months pay... If I lose 2 days pay - I will NOT be able to pay all my bills or even buy food..

 

Number 3 is the primary reason I am not striking - i just cannot afford to..

 

Now if you lot who say we should be striking "cos everyone else is" thinks that this strike is more important than my family - then you need to wake up! NOTHING is more important than them. NOTHING.

 

In the current economical climate, and the fact that a recession is just over the horizon, then I think 6.4% is a fantasy figure...

 

Im just grateful to be in a job that is, for now, secure (we all need schools) and that pays the bills...

 

/End Rant

[SpuffMonkey]

 

So as far as I am concerned is put up or shut up.

 

Alex

 

Never understood that saying - don't they both mean the same thing?

 

"Do something or shutup" would be more meaningful.

[cookie_monster]

Mind you it would be nice to hear that if there is an increase in the pay award that it will only go to those that have demonstated that they are prepared to take action over their pay and conditions!

 

Errrr no i wanted my payrise i've been offered in April all this waiting is costing me money not to mention there's no obligation to back pay it so i'll consider anything won an inconvenience bonus

 

 

and don't forget Gatt that on top of Unisons low turnout some other unions aren't even striking, so i get the feeling that people in general didn't want to strike this time. I think a better approach as the government don't have any money is to tell them what will happen next year to give them time to plan and budget for a better offer, the only way to fund a fantasy pay rise this year is through increased taxation.

 

I'd also think the curent inflation issue is temporary, once the recession takes hold inflation will drop and we can all start thinking how lucky we are to have secure jobs as people all around us are made redundant.

Edited July 16, 2008 by cookie_monster

[MisterTrimble]

With the low turn out and such a small majority actually voting for the strike, I can't believe that Unison have actually gone out.

 

Two days pay is a lot to those at the bottom end and they can ill afford to lose it.

 

This has been the last straw for me; I resigned from Unison yesterday and joing GMB.

 

MisterTrimble

[cookie_monster]

Exactly any gain this year will be eaten by the lost pay. Unison never think ahead as i said above, I think a better approach as the government don't have any money is to tell them what will happen next year to give them time to plan and budget for a better offer.

[leco]

I could get very political and start quoting National and Local Government election statistics as a discussion point. Can National Government be disregarded because of a lack of a ballot paper? Can Local Government be ignored by not voting? The answer is of course no to both.

 

I may not agree with my National or Local Government representatives but, how ever they were elected, I am obliged to follow the rules. It could be argued that being a member of an organisation I am also obliged to follow the rules of that organisation. This however, is slightly different as I do have a choice, but in all conscience can I pick and choose which rules I follow and which I do not?

 

I am not working today for a variety of reasons, but one of those reasons is that others are not in a position to be able to strike. For instance I am extremely grateful that the people caring for my mother-in-law are working today. I understand the dilemmas being faced, I also think that a claim for 6. whatever it is will not be successful. But if nothing is said or done then nothing will get done - the lowest paid will continue to be lowly paid whilst other "more important" people are awarded ever increasing percentages.

 

This is the first time in my long working life that I have taken industrial action, I am not happy about it but hope that in some way my small voice will be heard.

[cookie_monster]

I could get very political and start quoting National and Local Government election statistics as a discussion point.

 

No don't that will just highlight the negative problems of low turnout

 

 

This is the first time in my long working life that I have taken industrial action, I am not happy about it but hope that in some way my small voice will be heard.

 

I have taken action before but i believe that now is not the time and the low turn out suggests that plenty of others agree.

Edited July 16, 2008 by cookie_monster

[alexknight]

Ok lets get one thing clear

 

I am in Unison but im not striking because....

 

1) I didn't ge a ballot paper

2) only 13 PERCENT of Unison members voted, out of that only 55 PERCENT said "yes - we'll strike" - now my maths isn't great but thats what - about 7.5 percent (give or take) of Unison Members?

3) Most Importantly... Like most other people here, I have Bills to pay each month, I also have to feed my family - (Me, My Wife, my 14 Month old son, and 2 dogs).. I can ONLY JUST do this on a full months pay... If I lose 2 days pay - I will NOT be able to pay all my bills or even buy food..

 

Number 3 is the primary reason I am not striking - i just cannot afford to..

 

Now if you lot who say we should be striking "cos everyone else is" thinks that this strike is more important than my family - then you need to wake up! NOTHING is more important than them. NOTHING.

 

/End Rant

 

Gatt I understand where you are coming from.

 

The positive thing is that you are in a union and 'supporting' others through that.

 

Now I am being devils advocate here:

 

You say you have important things in your life, your family first and foremost. Of course you have to think of them and provide for them.

 

BUT

 

If you accept a pay cut in relative terms, year after year, and lets remember that the government are pushing for a three year 2.45% pay deal, you will effectively reduce your families standard of living over the next few years.

 

As for pay increases pushing up inflation!!

 

Well since I have had a below payrise for the last three or more years that has really worked hasn't it. I can't see inflation getting any lower and to be honest pay rises are not the primary factor in inflation figures.

 

We all have choices to make and if you are happy with your pay then take no action. If you are not happy you have two choices, get another job or take industrial action for decent terms and conditions. Simple really.

 

The other unions that are not striking are perhaps not the right union for you. I know quite a few ATL union members that have moved over to Unison as ATL will support lecturers and teachers to the hilt but have not come up with support this time for teaching assistants etc.

 

Minorities majorites. So now we are saying that you should not respect what minorities have to say?

 

Just becuase a minority have voted does not mean that they are less worthy, in fact that minority may be so low paid that they have nothing to lose? A couple of days pay could be so low that they would not miss it. You could also say that the low turn out/apathy means that many don't mind if Unison go out on strike or not. If the majority had strong views they would have all voted.

 

Finally, we all have choices and opinions, and I repect those individual choices and opinions.

 

regards

 

Alex

[cookie_monster]

If you accept a pay cut in relative terms, year after year, and lets remember that the government are pushing for a three year 2.45% pay deal, you will effectively reduce your families standard of living over the next few years.

 

I can't see inflation getting any lower and to be honest pay rises are not the primary factor in inflation figures.

 

A booming economy has been responsible for inflation (untill the recent short term energy rise) a long downturn like the one looming will bring inflation down. In that situation the government will see a year on year decrease in tax revenue due to a shrinking economy. They will find it very hard to find these payrises. I still say take the 2.4% and see next year.

Edited July 16, 2008 by cookie_monster

[teejay]

They will find it very hard to find these payrises. I still say take the 2.4% and see next year.

 

Yes but they are fixing the pay deal at 2.4% for the next 3 years! That's why it's important to take action now as we will have no comeback next year.

[teejay]

Gatt I understand where you are coming from.

 

The other unions that are not striking are perhaps not the right union for you. I know quite a few ATL union members that have moved over to Unison as ATL will support lecturers and teachers to the hilt but have not come up with support this time for teaching assistants etc.

 

Myself and another member of staff who is in ATL were put in similar positions of being severely overworked (we are talking doing 70-80 hours per week no with no overtime payment). I managed to get through it unscathed with the support of Unison and also received the extra support I needed from SLT and the council. He got no support from ATL and is now on 2 payscales lower than he was. He has since left ATL and joined Unison

Edited July 16, 2008 by teejay

[cookie_monster]

We can always return to the negotiating table if it gets silly but a period of deflation and falling tax revenue is predicted. The government are being sensible for once i'm afraid. Edited July 16, 2008 by cookie_monster

[teejay]

From what I understand, if this pay deal is accepted it is fixed for three years with virtually no option to negotiate. I understand the problem the government have, but in situations like this a sensible government would halt some of their crackpot schemes such as ID cards which would save billions per year, which could then be spent on helping those on the lowest salaries.

I have a couple of friends who work in debt councelling charities and the problems they are now seeing from people on low wages really is horrible. These are people who have tried really hard, not gone mad spending stupidly but are now in situations where they are really struggling to put food on the table and pay their rent, bills etc.

I'm not supporting the strike for my benefit as what I get paid is a livable wage, but it's the one who are really trying on £6 per hour jobs who I'm fighting for.

[cookie_monster]

While i appreciate what you're saying these salary levels are always going to be an issue i used to earn below the first minimum wage when it was bought in, i received a payrise when it came in but this was eaten by inflation, when the next rise came along the same thing happened. I still have friends on minimum wage and they say the same, as soon as spending power increases for the masses so do prices.

This is why i'm still a fan of a lower rate of tax for the bottom rung earners but the current conservative government got rid of it.

[broc]

Local Govt employees have accepted below inflation pay rises for the last 5 years. Meanwhile the Govt has awarded greater pay rises for civil servants,civilian support staff in the police, fire and ambulance services and even NHS workers. This means a cleaner working elsewhere for the Govt gets paid more than a cleaner working for the local council. Why is that? Are they less worthy?

 

All Unison wants is equality for its members with other government employees. A 6% increase will go some way towards delivering that equality.

 

As for the poor turnout at the ballot, we live in a democracy, a society were people are neither compelled or threatened with violence to vote. We elect MPs and local councillors with equally poor turn out and nobody refuses to recognise the validity of those ballots. If you don't vote you have to accept your destiny is in the hands of others.

[cookie_monster]

As a citizen i can always vote and so can everyone else so they only have themselves to blame, as a non union member i have no say so it's a bit annoying that a low member turnout vote has this result. Now i'm still waiting for my payrise

[leco]

Now I'm still waiting for my pay rise

 

As are we all. The negotiations for this pay award started well before it was due to be paid. If the Local Government Employers had wanted to they could have agreed and paid it on time. Please try not to blame Unison for the shortcomings of others.

[cookie_monster]

I'm blaming them for not taking no for an answer taking the offer and coming up with a better plan next year.

 

All Unison wants is equality for its members with other government employees

 

One problem here is the way that local councils are funded.

[leco]

I'm blaming them for not taking no for an answer taking the offer and coming up with a better plan next year.

 

Already stated - this pay offer is fixed for the next three years, so coming up with a better plan next year is not an option.

[cookie_monster]

One word, Compromise. "We aren't taking the 3 year deal but we'll take 2.4% this year, see you next year so you have time to find the money." We also get to see if their falling inflation story pans out

[somabc]

http://idler.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/blast.png

 

I think the point is that the public sector has had below inflation pay rises for the last 5+ years. Those were the 'good times' when money was floating about but still they never got to have their 'share' unlike the private sector. Now when the chips are down they are asked to sacrifice their salary even more for the good of the economy. There is no upside for public sector workers here, why should they accept an effective pay cut each year? If you put workers in a position where they earn less and less each year, cannot buy a house, cannot run a car, cannot raise a family, cannot go on holiday, then who will take these jobs?

 

The way things are going if I was leaving school just now, I would be extremely tempted go to Uni as much as I can, rack up student debts that I would never pay back (thereby gaining an excellent education for free), get as many credit cards as I could and have fun in my 20s then file for bankruptcy. If I can never own a house / car etc then why not. Then I would move abroad and get a decent job / salary with my Masters degree / PhD in a different cheaper country and start a new life. Beats 20+ years of working 9-5 for a pittance, with no job security, staying in a rundown rented flat and living off baked beans in the vain hope I can save some money.

 

(Then again I may have been reading The Idler too much)

The Idler

 

They should have told the government to get stuffed years ago, and bargained for a pay rise at least always matching inflation with possible reviews to see if they merit an increase on top. That is the only fair deal.

 

The unions are in a weaker position now. If unemployment rises, the government can with some justification say that you are lucky to have a job at all, and that there is no money to fund pay rises due to the economic crisis.

Edited July 17, 2008 by somabc

[cookie_monster]

Unfortunatly there never has been a golder era for public sector workers, tax payers always see other areas that they would rather see their money spent on.

 

I can't see the government backing down as they don't have any spare money and any available cash will soon go to feeding the increasing load on the benefits system, the one that hopefully we won't have to rely on.

[broc]

One word, Compromise. "We aren't taking the 3 year deal but we'll take 2.4% this year, see you next year so you have time to find the money." We also get to see if their falling inflation story pans out

 

Good idea..... BUT

 

If you look back to last years local government pay award, the unions said precisely what you have suggested, they told the employers they would accept a below inflation deal in 2007 but they would be asking for a more equitable deal in 2008.

 

The employers have clearly ignored what the unions told them last year.

 

That's why the strike was called.

[SteveT]

..... and don't believe the lies about being unable to afford it!!!! They were able to afford nice pay rises for themselves and have £11 billion pounds sitting in the bank ....... £3 billion unallocated!!!! These reserves have been built up over the last few years because of savings local government workers have made through working more efficiently and accepting below inflation wage rises for the past 5 years.

 

An interesting article at www.investmentmarkets.co.uk not the most left wing or worker friendly publication!!!!

 

Some of the more pertinent points are as follows (this was published last September so is only slightly out of date.):

 

"The figures released today by the Office for National Statistics reflectd a 3.5% increase in the average wage on the year, despite very weak public sector wage rises over the same period and analysts predictions that wages would not rise as steeply as a result of a tightening credit environment and ongoing market volatility."

 

 

 

"Meanwhile, it was the private sector that contributed to the bulk of the wage growth over the period, with the lack of public sector wage increases of hot political relevance at the moment. "

 

ie. The overall average increase in wages was held down by very small increases in the public sector. I cannot find the link at the moment but I'm sure the average wage increase in the private sector (which includes bonuses and perks we have no access to!!) was 4% last year!

Edited July 18, 2008 by SteveT