New School Build - do you take anything?

[stefarr]

H, don't know where to post this so thought I'd try General chat -

 

Just a question to the tech's that have had or are in the process of a new build school.

1-do you take any of your networking kit - switches/servers/wifi (laptops and desktops would go i guess)

2-do you get a choice of switches/wifi/etc if the above question is no

 

ta

 

steve

[mavhc]

15 years ago: Took everything and got new things, new wifi, phones, switches iirc. Reused laptops and desktops I think.

 

Basically base it on age of equipment, if it's very old, say it won't work and you'll need new stuff

[Oaktech]

Push for everything new, negotiate back from there.

[dmj]

When I was involved in a new build there was a lot of talk at the beginning about how we would have input but at the end of the day, almost everything was specified by DfE consultants. They basically had a list of things approved by the DfE and they will do the minimum to meet those specs.

[Oaktech]

When I was involved in a new build there was a lot of talk at the beginning about how we would have input but at the end of the day, almost everything was specified by DfE consultants. They basically had a list of things approved by the DfE and they will do the minimum to meet those specs.

 

 

I made a right nuisance of myself - got a few complaints to my manager about getting myself involved in things which the builders and consultants thought were outside of my remit, but ultimately got what I needed.

 

I called people directly, demanded site plans, cable schedules and routes, things like that, jumped up and down when I realised they'd omitted wifi completely, put the data rack in the back of the outdoor bin-store & specced a non-voip telephone system at the time we could all see which way things were going, tried to hang a whole school of a single copper line when there was gig fibre in the road... The list goes on!

[Andrew_C]

Good luck... My experience (not in the IT field) matches Oaktech here.

[psydii]

Better I think to bring over the good stuff, so the money they bring can get better kit, not more kit. 15 years ago we got a fully redundant 10Gb backbone and 50% gig to desktop because we brought over 500 desktops, laptops and 100 Interactive Boards. We've replaced the 'top of rack' switches now, but the core switch remains the same, and the boards we replaced over the summer (20 years old some of them!)

 

Crucially we kept investing in IT throughout the 3 year run up to the new build, so in effect we added £750,000 of value by bringing across our most recent purchases assets.

 

However if 24 months ago we'd been offered a new build, I would have abandoned everything bar the most recent 40 laptops in favour of new kit, because at that point investment in the IT refresh cycle had been 50% below what was needed to maintain a reliable service for four years, and a complete fresh start would have bene better than the strategy we were able to persue 15 years ago.

 

So it the great tradition, it depends

 

 

But do absolutely get involved in the design stage - every room, every service shaft, every bit of the service - you have to be there when they are discusses and you have to raise suggestions and questions (lets not call them concerns unless they brush you off) with the team and the senior managers of the school - after all you will be left holding this baby once they sign it off. (speaking of which - an agreed spec to be signed of is both an art form and a science - this has to be done well by competent suitable Professionals - you definitely want to get in with them to understand where the compromises are, and also to sense check that their are actually the suitable Professionals for the IT sign off)

Edited October 6, 2022 by psydii

[BeepBoop]

Is this a new DfE school, or a local authority one?

[Roberto]

H, don't know where to post this so thought I'd try General chat -

 

Just a question to the tech's that have had or are in the process of a new build school.

1-do you take any of your networking kit - switches/servers/wifi (laptops and desktops would go i guess)

2-do you get a choice of switches/wifi/etc if the above question is no

 

ta

 

steve

 

Based on previous experience

 

1) No. Aside from anything else, you have to transition from old building to new (well we did) so you need kit in both places to parallel run as it were. As our move was planned years ahead it was accounted for in our replacement schedule (e.g. we stretched the lifecycle of kit in the old campus rather than replace it and have to dump new kit)

2) Yes, though we had to go out to tender given the value of the spend so "choice" isn't entirely the right word perhaps.

Edited October 6, 2022 by Roberto

[DrBeaker]

No - this should be treated as a proper project and require kit and infrastructure that is totally new and meets today's standards.

 

Including proper building designs for server rooms, air con, comms cupboards etc.

 

Would they take the old toilets, sinks, piping etc from the old school?

[IrritableTech]

Some good arguments in the thread but if it’s all new, will the money be available in five years time to refresh everything again?

 

How do you spread the costs down the line, replace early, extend beyond usual life span or do without?

[Roberto]

Some good arguments in the thread but if it’s all new, will the money be available in five years time to refresh everything again?

 

How do you spread the costs down the line, replace early, extend beyond usual life span or do without?

 

This is actually relatively easy - in theory.

 

Arguably this should already be happening but whenever you buy a new piece of infrastructure you should already have an expectation of how long it will last before replacement would be necessary, what your future replacement strategy is likely to be, e.g. is this the last hurrah for something legacy you have to support, will you probably want more of the same (with possible changes to minor things like capacity) or will you be changing direction, for example is this the last server for application X you will buy before transitioning to AppX's cloud offering.

 

You can then use the results of that thought exercise to do a few things

1. Design for different replacement schedules in your initial purchase - choose some things that will need replaceing in 3 years, some that will need replacing in 5, etc)
   
2. Put down a marker _now_ with SLT for the replacement schedule for new build equipment
   
3. Ask the vendor what the expected lifecycle is. Look at their warranty offerings - I'm not necessaraily saying you have to buy their extended warranty but they know more about their own products' lifecycles than you do, and their warranty terms might reveal how they think about that...
   
4. 
   

[dmj]

The IT Specifications for new school builds are listed in section 4: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1077999/GDB_GenericDesignBrief-A-C15.pdf

[gaz350b]

It really depends on finances. If you go all new kit how do you plan on replacing it! I would try and bring a small amount of legacy as long as there is a strategy to replace it.

 

As long as all pcs and servers have the required standards for windows 11 maybe latest gen i5 m.2 they should be good for years to come imo. You can always increase ram as you go.

 

Start replacing at year 5. But keep anything that is serviceable as spares.

 

Keep number of specs differences down to a minimum makes supporting longer term easier.

 

If anyone is still on a full 5 year replacement strategy now, you are either speccing too low to begin with or you have a magic money tree some where.

Edited October 7, 2022 by gaz350b

[Zammo]

No - this should be treated as a proper project and require kit and infrastructure that is totally new and meets today's standards.

 

Including proper building designs for server rooms, air con, comms cupboards etc.

 

Would they take the old toilets, sinks, piping etc from the old school?

What if some of the existing kit is just a year old?

 

What a waste of public funds.

[Mr.Ben]

What if some of the existing kit is just a year old?

 

What a waste of public funds.

Depends - in a single school that would be a huge waste. In a medium/large Trust - always another site that needs some newer kit!

[dmj]

What if some of the existing kit is just a year old?

 

What a waste of public funds.

 

Just doesn't happen, schools know it happens in advance and the build times are years. The school can choose to move new kit in.

[mikeprice]

The above advise is good - get new where you can and re-use the best you have if necessary

 

 

I would just like to add that I would use this as an opportunity to build up a stack of stuff for testing and emergency purpose

 

on the quiet

 

maybe that mythical stack of old laptops that 'we' all keep in a cupboard might actually exist afterwards

 

and I certainly would keep the best network stuff that is going "spare" so I can create a temporary network to test stuff if necessary

 

not much stuff - but enough to be able to chuck together a test rig for those unexpected testing necessities that tend to crop up

 

When I worked ina big business our departments whole Y2K testing systems were made up of stuff that everyone though had been thrown out

 

 

Always pays to be prepared

[DrBeaker]

What if some of the existing kit is just a year old?

 

What a waste of public funds.

What about the DfE Covid laptops being a waste of public funds then my friend?

 

Academies with excessive salaries being a waste of public money?

Edited October 7, 2022 by DrBeaker

[Zammo]

What about the DfE Covid laptops being a waste of public funds then my friend?

 

Academies with excessive salaries being a waste of public money?

 

What about them?

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Just doesn't happen, schools know it happens in advance and the build times are years. The school can choose to move new kit in.

Thats my point

[Ditto]

Is this a new DfE school, or a local authority one?

I believe any new school is by definition an academy, so I don't think a new LA school is a 'thing'.

[Ditto]

I made a right nuisance of myself - got a few complaints to my manager about getting myself involved in things which the builders and consultants thought were outside of my remit, but ultimately got what I needed.

 

I called people directly, demanded site plans, cable schedules and routes, things like that, jumped up and down when I realised they'd omitted wifi completely, put the data rack in the back of the outdoor bin-store & specced a non-voip telephone system at the time we could all see which way things were going, tried to hang a whole school of a single copper line when there was gig fibre in the road... The list goes on!

I'm a little late to the thread, but this is exactly the right approach. To you @Oaktech, thank you on behalf of all the pupils and the staff of that school. As a parent, governor and ex-school employee, many won't know the value you brought for sticking your head above the parapet, but it is a real impact - No 'IT crowd' forgotten from me!

[Ditto]

Always pays to be prepared

 

100% agree with what @mikeprice has said. With the quoted line, I do want to give him the appropriate Scout badge - unless you already have it

[mikeprice]

100% agree with what @mikeprice has said. With the quoted line, I do want to give him the appropriate Scout badge - unless you already have it

 

If only you had asked earlier

 

 

 

I only threw my old scout shirt out at the beginning of the year!!!

and, for some reason, I didn't make a note of the badges on it

and my cub scout jumper/shirt (or whatever) wasn't even there!

 

 

(and no - I didn't keep it myself - I found it with my old school cap and tie in a bag when I was clearing my parent's house out after they died - I was just amazed my first baby shoes were not there!)

[mikeprice]

100% agree with what @mikeprice has said. With the quoted line, I do want to give him the appropriate Scout badge - unless you already have it

 

What would the badge look like??

 

maybe a pile of electrical stuff in a shed???