Jobos Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 The site manager was telling me he has found a new company that do PAT testing and got the price down to £1 per item which is a large drop from the £1.16 he paid last year. They came in last week and I’ve found items which have never been tested before. I understand anything with a plug on needs testing but these guys have tested to a whole new level. What I mean is the wireless access points have been tested... not just the power supply but the access point itself. I’ve found small 4 port switches tested and they have even tested a 750MB ZIP drive, again not just the power supplies but the devices itself. Moving on to laptops, there’s 3 test stickers used. The power lead, the power adapter and the laptop itself. I’m getting a feeling that these guys are making up for offering a low price by testing anything and everything!
Hightower Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 I used to do pat testing - and it all has to be tested. You test the power lead first. Then the power lead along with the adapter, and then the whole lead with the device if it is in three parts. I think the timeframe changes though. For example - cables (because they are easily frayed etc) have to be tested every year, where as base units for computers only need testing every 4 years (I think) because they are a closed unit.
Jona Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 Moving on to laptops, there’s 3 test stickers used. The power lead, the power adapter and the laptop itself. I’m getting a feeling that these guys are making up for offering a low price by testing anything and everything! This sounds like correct practice to me. The logic being if you can unplug something then it needs testing. A properly tested desktop unit should have at least 4 tests - 1 x monitor lead 1 x main lead 1 x monitor 1 x machine If the monitor has a power adapter this should also be tested. I would think low voltage peripherals (e.g. USB only no external power) shouldn't be tested, also fixed wiring shouldn't be PAT tested as it comes under different legislation. Cheers Jona
jj99 Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 I used to do PAT testing at my last place as well, under our insurance requirments we were supposed to test everything with a plug! However we were allowed to just do a visual check (for frayed wires etc) on stuff that could not be turned off (UPS etc) so we included servers and switches in that. In then end to save money we trained up myself and one of the other techys to be able to PAT test and we tested everything when it came throught the door. The course itself was pretty cheap its the testing equipment and the database that they write to that cost the money about £500 quid for just the tester but that was a while ago.
sparkeh Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 Again, sounds about right. Anything with a plug. If it has multiple parts (eg a laptop power pack that has two separate components) then each bit needs testing.
Jobos Posted June 25, 2008 Author Posted June 25, 2008 So even a ZIP drive that runs at 5v needs testing? I can't see how they would connect it to the machine and why has no one ever tested it before.
Jona Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 So even a ZIP drive that runs at 5v needs testing? I can't see how they would connect it to the machine and why has no one ever tested it before. If it has an external power adapter then yes it needs testing (although I suspect it's just a visual inspection). If it is USB powered then it's slightly more questionable....
srochford Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 If it has an external power adapter then yes it needs testing (although I suspect it's just a visual inspection). If it is USB powered then it's slightly more questionable.... Nothing at all *needs* to be tested unless you have a policy which says that you will do it - it's just if you have tested it and someone dies then at least you can show you were trying to keep things safe. Anything which is categorised as Class II or double insulated (it will have the double square logo on it) doesn't need testing at all - other than visual inspection because it can't sensibly be tested (PAT is particularly interested in testing if the earth connection is good and if there's any leakage to earth; neither is relevant on a device with no earth connection) Low voltage equipment (eg USB powered) is Class III and doesn't need to be tested at all - you can stick your tongue in a USB socket (but please don't - very messy!) and it won't kill you :-) 1
powdarrmonkey Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 I don't know if I was trained more strictly than Steve, but as far as I'm concerned class I and class II get tests whether they're double insulated or not. The test is slightly different though, you don't do a 26A earth bond on a CII for example. In the case of your zip drive or access point though, you should be testing: 1. the IEC lead from the plug to the adaptor 2. the adaptor itself, because it is stepping mains down to low voltage You don't need to (and physically can't) test the device itself if it is not mains voltage. Your testers are taking the wee, which is why they're so cheap.
pete Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 Did they ask "when would be a good time to test your access points / switches?" or did they just randomly test stuff without checking first?
Jobos Posted June 25, 2008 Author Posted June 25, 2008 In the case of your zip drive or access point though, you should be testing: 1. the IEC lead from the plug to the adaptor 2. the adaptor itself, because it is stepping mains down to low voltage You don't need to (and physically can't) test the device itself if it is not mains voltage. Your testers are taking the wee, which is why they're so cheap. So items that aren’t mains voltage would include the ZIP drive, small switches, access points and laptops (the power adaptor and leads should be tested)
Jobos Posted June 25, 2008 Author Posted June 25, 2008 Did they ask "when would be a good time to test your access points / switches?" or did they just randomly test stuff without checking first? They went from room to room blitzing everything.
timzim Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 If I had to do this job I'd also charge a lot as it's the most boring job in the entire world. I did it once here and refused to do it ever again. Since you use the mains lead to connect the device you're testing to the tester I think you can safely say that if the device has passed then so has the lead. You really don't have to check both individually unless you have OCD.
powdarrmonkey Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 If I had to do this job I'd also charge a lot as it's the most boring job in the entire world. I did it once here and refused to do it ever again. It may be boring but it's very lucrative. A good tester can earn £300+ a day. Since you use the mains lead to connect the device you're testing to the tester I think you can safely say that if the device has passed then so has the lead. You really don't have to check both individually unless you have OCD. You are required to check both the lead and the device if the two can be seperated. You can get around this if you want by cable tying the device and lead together so that this isn't possible.
Hightower Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 EURO PAT - The Portable Appliance Testing Specialists - Frequency Table Take a look at this link. Under Education, Class II (which should be things like monitors and base units) it is suggested to test only every 48 months. Where as Class I you should test every year - Tell them next time they come to test that you need all the cables testing only as all the Class II stuff has been done. 2
Jobos Posted June 25, 2008 Author Posted June 25, 2008 So items that aren’t mains voltage would include the ZIP drive, small switches, access points and laptops (the power adaptor and leads should be tested) Thinking back they failed a laptop because the battery clip was broken and the battery was being held in place by gaffer tape. I confess that it was me who made the ‘repair’ as I didn’t think that it be subject to any tests
timzim Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 You are required to check both the lead and the device if the two can be seperated. Required by whom? It's not a legal requirement - see Legal requirements for Portable Appliance Testing and PAT Testing 1
powdarrmonkey Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 Edit: When I was trained, I was required to. Sorry.
jj99 Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 Required by whom? It's not a legal requirement - see Legal requirements for Portable Appliance Testing and PAT Testing Although its not a law to pat test as far i understand it is a legal requirment to protect employees form being zapped! Part of that legistation is testing it and Every insurnace company that i have ever dealt with has made it a requiment to get everyting PAT tested for this reason.
somabc Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 I think they are taking the P. They should charge per whole device tested ie 1 laptop, 1 PC. Not 4 times for every laptop. That reminds of the day the PAT tester started unplugging all our servers to test them. That was a fun day.
Andrew_C Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 Nothing at all *needs* to be tested unless you have a policy which says that you will do it - it's just if you have tested it and someone dies then at least you can show you were trying to keep things safe. Anything which is categorised as Class II or double insulated (it will have the double square logo on it) doesn't need testing at all I humbly suggest that you need to get hold of a copy of the IEE CoP on PAT. You are simply wrong. There is a requirement in law to ensure a safe system of work, and a requirement in law to maintain electrical systems. How do you "ensure" or "maintain" something if you don't know what condition it is in?
Lurch Posted June 25, 2008 Posted June 25, 2008 I think they are taking the P. They should charge per whole device tested ie 1 laptop, 1 PC. Not 4 times for every laptop. I've generally tested a PC and mains lead as 1 device, but only when I've been in control of what goes in and out and what ends up where. On sites where anyone could move anything anywhere whenever they wanted then I'd test everything individually so it can be 'mixed and matched'. In the case of the testers that are the subject of this thread, they are either incompetent, cowboys or rip off merchants, or all 3. You can't fail a laptop as it isn't mains powered. If they are doing them FOC then great, leave them to it. I PAT tested several sites once after another company had done it and the owner wondered why I was more expensive. Out of 200 odd items in the several sites the old company had tested about 20. They just did kettles and vacuum cleaners as 'computers don't need testing', and they failed a few items that had nothing wrong with them.
shelby Posted December 11, 2008 Posted December 11, 2008 (edited) so should a USB powered gadget be pat tested when the computer already has been? or are my employers just taking the p***. Edited March 20, 2010 by witch
Andrew_C Posted December 11, 2008 Posted December 11, 2008 No, but it does still need to be "proven to be safe". That may be as simple as a quick look. A separate power supply for a USB hub or whatever should be tested/inspected as required by your RA. 1
powdarrmonkey Posted December 11, 2008 Posted December 11, 2008 (edited) so should a USB powered gadget be pat tested when the computer already has been? or are my employers just taking the p***. Not if it doesn't have its own mains power supply, no. (If you can plug it in to the mains, it should have a test is a good rule.) Edited March 20, 2010 by witch 1
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