Out of Hours

[Jonah]

Hi all,

 

As a growing Trust we’re looking at the SLA we offer our schools, and part of this is around out of hours/on call staffing.

 

I was just wondering if anyone has any examples of how this works in their Trusts/schools - particularly around expectations on response, what (if any) payments are involved and what times are expected to be covered (24/7, etc). This would only be for “serious” issues around infrastructure, not standard requests (password requests and the like).

 

Appreciate any responses.

 

Cheers.

[Jcx500]

Recently written a similar policy/ rules for our school as we expand.

 

Helpdesk hours are 8-4 staff get an auto reply after those saying the helpdesk is now closed for that day and we will respond the next working day.

 

SLT have our numbers Incase of emergency. We also set zabbix to only email us when core infrastructure fails .

[mikeprice]

If it considered to be essential that someone is available for longer than normal hours then it should be paid for

 

There have been quite a few people come on here and say the 'total necessity' of out-of-hours availability seemed to reduce dramatically when they realised they had to pay for it!!!!

 

I also should point out that a lot of people have been working more than their contracted hours due the Covid problems - which is fine in an emergency

 

If SMT start acting as if this is now normal and is just expected then it should be pointed out that this was done 'for the good of the school in an emergency' and taking advantage of peoples' good will one the emergency is over is not acceptable

Unions should crop up in the conversation at about that point!!!

[Steve21]

If it considered to be essential that someone is available for longer than normal hours then it should be paid for

 

I mean arguably they already are, most of the higher level contracts (manager wise) have the normal "hours as required to do the job" etc kind of phrasing within it. Same as for things like covering after-school events etc, still outside "normal" hours

 

Obviously it depends what it is, but if it's a major infrastructure fail that'll affect lots of things, that's a bit different to a standard password reset etc

 

Steve

[mikeprice]

I think there is often a problem in school because teachers are generally expected to work whatever hours it takes to do the job - and as most management tend to be teachers they forget that other staff members do work on the same terms and conditions

Hence they just assume that if you are needed then you should be available

 

but then you get people being criticised for being unavailable due to pre arranged events

 

There should be an arrangement where you can be rung - but you can refuse to deal with the problem with no blame or comeback

 

how you get to that is anyone's guess!

[steve]

In my mind there should definitely be a distinction between known / planned requirements and being available in an emergency / on-call.

 

Where there is a plan, e.g. parents evening, a server replacement out of hours or an ongoing project, these can be foreseen. As such those with "hours as requested" could be expected to undertake such activity with sufficient notice. But it must also be seen of the context of maintaining a good work / life balance. If you are being flexible, so should your employer and allow you to balance out such extra work at other times, such as leaving an hour early, perhaps coming in late in holidays or taking TOIL.

 

For unplanned out of core working hours activity, such as a system outage, I would want this to be clearly a requirement of any contract. It is unrealistic to expect people not to have a normal life out side of work and be always available to provide support. Those with caring duties for example cannot be expected to make last minute arrangements. It isn't reasonable to expect someone to have a phone on at all times, you might be out of range on a walk or in a cinema. And its possible you are unbale to perform the duties due a lack of access to facilities or being intoxicated. If an organisation expects you to be prepared to be available and limiting your life outside of work hours, they need to be explicit about that and you need to be compensated accordingly.

 

Lots of organisations want 24/7 support but few are prepared to pay for it or understand the impact it has on staff.

 

Any hour where your are on standby may count towards your working time: https://www.peoplemanagement.co.uk/news/articles/on-call-standby-shifts-working-time

 

Going back to the OPs question, my employer has specific staff on call, on a rota and pays them accordingly. We also pay for additional services to provide out of hours help such as https://www.normanmanagedservices.ac.uk/

[mikeprice]

Probably irrelevant (yes its me) but

 

when I worked for a big business there was policy that anyone (below a certain rank) was entitled to 2 hours pay if they responded in any way - although - "no sorry I'm busy" was not counted!

 

so - change password - time taken 5 minutes including starting PC - pay 2 hours

 

if it takes longer than 2 hours to fix - you get the extra as well - over 2 hours it clocks up to 3 even if only 1 minute over

 

after a while they wanted me to carry a bleeper - pre mobile clearly

as per policy this entitled me to a minimum of 3 claims for calls a week - whether they were made or not

 

I made a fortune out of that!!!

 

but it did mean people took notice of me being on call 24/7 and eventually did something about it

 

now - I do not suggest that a school should do this

 

but if they are allowed - or do - have the ability to ring you when you are not at work then you should get paid for it - SMT get paid to be available at all times but they forget that

 

site staff who are key holders get extra pay

 

 

 

I really think there should be a national policy on this

maybe a Union (NEU???) could petition for this???

 

err - Damn - now I think about it - maybe I should contact them and see what they think

anyone supporters - ???

 

MODS - is it OK to just post below or should I start a new thread

[elsiegee40]

MODS - is it OK to just post below or should I start a new thread

 

Probably better to start a new thread BTRD rather than derail this one @mikeprice. Not that you ever derail things...

[mikeprice]

Probably better to start a new thread BTRD rather than derail this one @mikeprice. Not that you ever derail things...

 

:):):):)

[MatthewL]

We work 24/7 so have a need for this 1 week in so many get paid hourly rate. It only covers category 1 calls, failure of network, a computer if another is not available, certain password resets, loss of telecoms and staff who work mobile who need access to systems in short. Anything else they are reminded to log in normal business hours.

 

Might be other little bits and bobs but that is the general of it, some weeks are steady others are hell. The weekday evenings are not bad but weekends are a write off when I'm on call. I'd quite happily give it up, stressful week of them all for me. I think we do about 5 weeks a year.

[sparkeh]

I don’t work in education anymore but my job has an in call element and the difference in expectations is stark.

 

If you are on call you get an allowance for being on standby as it affects your home life. Any call out has a minimum claim time and is paid according to some mind bending formula that involves the number of hours worked and the time of day your worked (night/weekend/bank holiday work pays more). Call outs are for serious issues only (not always followed but a password reset is a nice earner) and all calls are triaged before the call is made.

 

Education seems to expect everyone to do what ever it takes without recompense but everyone deserves to be paid for the work they do, especially when they go above and beyond.

[strawberry]

Ask your trust how it works for your DSL and site team.

[mikeprice]

I have started a new thread http://www.edugeek.net/forums/behind-red-door/220968-do-we-think-i-should-ask-neu-ask-new-policy-about-out-hours-working.html#post1891257

 

Please post views about whether or not I should see if the NEU are willing to raise this and develop a proper set of guidelines/policies etc

I may even try to get my MP involved

 

views for and against are welcome!

[akidosaint]

In a previous roll (Non Education) i was rotated to be on call between the hours of 17:00 - 08:00 (initial pattern was Mon - Thursday then a weekend 3 or so weeks later Last pattern was MT fortnight off TW another Forthnight offthen FS followed by Sun this was a rolling 7 week pattern)

 

I was given a stand by allowance (£15 M-F £30 Weekends)

 

Once call was made we had a set time to respond to call (1 hour)

 

Minimum claim was for 30 min hourly Rate.

 

If we had to attend site minimum 4 hour pay out.

 

We also had agreement what work we would support out of hours get this written down and agreed with SL\MT also have an agreement in place about what happens if on call is called up at 03:00 in the morning let Management know that tech will not be in on usual hours.

 

Final note is get on call persons to email their replacement so they're aware of any issues that have been occurring.

Edited March 15, 2021 by akidosaint