The credit crunch

[Edu-IT]

How do you make that one out?

Well you said she isn't quick so perhaps she's been thinking of this joke for a while and finally found the right moment to share it?

[FN-GM]

ah right, well i asked her today what she meant and see knows about the credit crunch but just didn’t think at the time.

[Edu-IT]

ah right, well i asked her today what she meant and see knows about the credit crunch but just didn’t think at the time.

So was she trying to be funny or not?

[FN-GM]

no she was serious

[torledo]

or maybe she was flirting....the little minx

[FN-GM]

i hope not.....

[torledo]

....you should be glad of the attention.

[witch]

a bit of both really, more for the bad joke but i'd take offense if he was unaffected by the credit crunch as a home-ownin', guardian-reading, flipflop-wearing, pc left-of-centre, recycling, grammar-school educated muppet.

 

AHHHHHHHHH. I did try to ignore this - really I did - but I can't.

I am ALL these things - (except I read the Independent and don't wear flipflops) - and I WILL be affected by the credit crunch. I have a mortgage, I have debts and I have bills to pay, cars to run and three children to educate.

 

WHY do you think someone like me would be unaffected by the credit crunch?

 

And why do people like me upset you so much?

[torledo]

AHHHHHHHHH. I did try to ignore this - really I did - but I can't.

I am ALL these things - (except I read the Independent and don't wear flipflops) - and I WILL be affected by the credit crunch. I have a mortgage, I have debts and I have bills to pay, cars to run and three children to educate.

 

WHY do you think someone like me would be unaffected by the credit crunch?

 

And why do people like me upset you so much?

 

you don't satisfy the specific criteria in that you don't wear flipflops, so i'm not upset with people such as yourself....i'll extend the list to specify 'bearded, red-wine quaffing, solarpaneled, piano playing non-smokers' and i'm pretty sure that wouldn't apply to you either....

Edited June 8, 2008 by torledo

[witch]

er..I don't have a beard, that's true, or drink red wine, but I do have solar panels and yes, I do play the piano! (but mostly the French Horn). And I don't smoke either.

Actually, I don't drink at all , which SURELY must upset you?

[torledo]

er..I don't have a beard, that's true, or drink red wine, but I do have solar panels and yes, I do play the piano! (but mostly the French Horn). And I don't smoke either.

Actually, I don't drink at all , which SURELY must upset you?

 

Not at all, the no drinking is very commendable....

 

but might go some way to explaining why you're so uptight.

[chrbb]

flipflop-wearing, pc left-of-centre, recycling, grammar-school educated muppet

 

I wear flip flops, my pc is under the table, I recycle but really think that lifes too short to wash out cat food tins, grammar school 'til it went comp (would rather be the mad drummer than Miss Piggy if I have to be a muppet)

 

Also I make sure I consume my full quota of alcohol each weekend, but not wine can't stand it!

 

I'm actually quite impressed by the teacher's response in the first post it's the sort of thing I'd say:)

Although it may be that she is as old as me and can remember when you had to go on bended knee to get a mortgage even though you had saved at the building soc for years and the interest rate was 14%. In which case she's been there, read the book, ate the pie, worn the t shirt much like myself:)

[witch]

And me!!

 

Not uptight either,torledo, just interested in why you are so prejudiced about so many things - where does it all come from....

[sidewinder]

no she was serious

 

Im sorry but she clearly wasnt!! Have you come across sarcasm before? Its a rather popular type of humour that comes across as serious but actually isnt

 

I know I really shouldnt care about this, but there is just no way someone would answer that and be genuinely serious about it

 

I cant believe you actually asked her about it! It was a flippant, mildly humourous remark!

[Sirbendy]

....Have you come across sarcasm before? Its a rather popular type of humour that comes across as serious but actually isnt ....

 

http://sirbendy.jemjabella.co.uk/images/smileys/bestpost.gif

http://sirbendy.jemjabella.co.uk/images/smileys/notworthy.gif

[torledo]

And me!!

 

Not uptight either,torledo, just interested in why you are so prejudiced about so many things - where does it all come from....

 

not prejudiced...it's just an observation i've made about some of the middle class people that live in my area....

 

some households are not doing that bad, dual income households who are living the dream of living in a trendy area sending the kids to the good schools. Many will no doubt have mortgages, and some are asset rich but cash poor, however they are hardly affected by the credit crunch in the same way a young couple are who don't have well paid jobs/high earning partners and therefore can't afford to get on the property ladder....

 

similarly people who've bought property 5 or 6 years are feeling very satisfied that they've seen values almost double in some instances, while there mortgage is relatively modest in comparison to what ftb's have to raise. Ofcourse it's not that some people have always been lucky...i take the point about the 14% interest rates, but we've had fairly stable interest rate levels for over a decade, today the issue is affordability and the susceptibiliy of new buyers to even small interest rate fluctuations due to the astronomical cost of housing more than anything else.

 

ofcourse there are plenty out of this bunch who are asset rich cash poor yet have still found a way to send the kids private, upgrade to a new car every couple of years, and then bleet on about the cost of petrol and gas.

 

If i had bought at a time when you could buy a house at 3-3.5 times a single household income at a reasonable interest rate, and when the mortagage lenders fall over themselves to offer preferential rates when that fixed-rate mortage deal comes to an end....then i wouldn't be in the least bit worried about the credit crunch. I'd be grateful i didn't mortgage my future on the back of x5.5 or x6 salary multiple

 

I have no doubt life isn't a bed of roses for you witch, but next time you sit down at your piano with your IT expert husband (in his doubtless well paid job) you should spare a thought for people who've been priced out of the housing market....they are the real victims of the credit crunch, not the dual income home-owners who bought pre-2006. This govt. has for too long tried to woo middle england, for fear of upsetting them and losing their vote...as a result they have left house prices go unchecked, i think it's time really to focus on young couples and first-time buyers rather than worry about middle england seeing the value of their homes drop a few percent. What i see around me and the sandal-wearing piano players comment, masks a serious point about social mobility, or the lack of it.

 

You can be indignant all you want Witch, but my view is that the govt. has pandered to a certina demographic of peple for too long....as a result the future of young people on low-to-middling incomes is totally bankrupt with social mobility virtually non-existent.

 

If you want to accuse me of being bitter, and that would be fair comment. But prejudiced i think is a bit strong....sure i accept everyone has felt the credit crunch pinch, but some people are uniquely positioned to cope with it due mainly to when they bought property, whereas those who haven't been so fortuante are the ones who feel the credit crunch the most.

 

the guardian-reading stuff was somewhat tongue-in-cheek but i'm not angry or particularly upset with some people...i think there's a seirous point to be made about the social makeup depending on what postcode you happen to have bought in. And about how the credit crunch is more than just the cost of petrol and gas.

[Sirbendy]

Whilst I do agree with you to a point, how do you know her husband is in a well paid job? We're in IT, and we're not...

 

I had a piano once...it was about £60 from a second hand store..However, I don't drink, don't have flip-flops, don't read newspapers, do recycle, do have solar panelling, don't own, do rent and so on..

 

House prices and prices in general are daft, and overdue for a collapse IMHO. Bring it on. Even with Jem's wage (same as mine), we've got no chance of getting on the housing ladder. I'll settle for renting for now - if it all goes wobbly, we can bail out to the parents and rebuild again.

 

Can't see it coming to it though..we're very very careful with finances. Neither of us have any debt (nor will I if I can avoid it), if we buy new, it's unusual...second user, old tech does the job. Credit is a naughty word..I was always taught "if you can't afford it, go without". I refuse to have a credit card in the house. Loans the same.

 

We still have the same comfort level as everyone else, but I'll bet it's at a fraction of the cost.

 

I was looking at our old flat, which has come up for sale...a 3 room, 1 bed flat..nice area, yes...but..£95k. Sod that. I see a 2 bed bungalow down the road for £150kish, had 2 price cuts so far. Still a lot of dosh..but I'm happy to play the waiting game and rent until prices bottom out. We'll see what we can do then.

 

Assuming we can afford to light/heat a place at that point, or run a vehicle, of course.

 

As to our Gov't...Useless. Totally useless. Meddling, spineless, totally in need of removal.

[SpuffMonkey]

I'd have to say that, really, that rampant house price inflation hasn't be caused by people who bought their homes a long time ago - I bought mine 19 years ago - right at the top of a previous price spike and then watched myself fall deep into negative equity and face redundancy - so certainly haven't contributed to the silly prices seen now.

 

IMHO, what has caused this situation is irresponsible lending by the banks, combined with small pockets of people on ridiculously high wages. If (as when I was buying my first house) you were not allowed to borrow more that 3.5x the biggest earners salary - there wouldn't have been this stupid inflationary spiral.

 

The banks were deregulated in the 80s because they didn't need to be restricted, and could be trusted (cough cough). The restrictions had been put in place by Govt after a similar frenzy in the 1920's lead to the 30s depression - and we know what it took to get out of that! Alas - this time - there doesn't seem to be the inclination to step in and do something, apart from throw good money after bad and reward the banks by passing on even more cheap funds to them.

[chrbb]

Do you not think then that us people who bought our houses 25 years ago don't know what it's like to be broke? We only just survived financially for the first 5 years of being home owners, single income family, I couldn't work we had a child with a heart condition that only stabilised after an operation at the age of 2. We were so short of money if my husband's suit needed cleaning one month it was a financial disaster. He also went to uni one day/night a week to get a degree, eventually things got better, he was on yearly increments, got a couple of promotions and I got a job as a dinner lady at my sons local (state) school. My eldest son's just finished uni totally funded by himself and worked at the local pub to support himself, the youngest's a builder.

So sorry don't tell me that people like me don't know what a credit crunch is as I've said before I've read the book, ate the pie, worn the t shirt. I don't care whether I'm middle classed or not, but I do know is that what we have now is down to sheer hard work over the years and therefore ours to enjoy, hopefully without being 'mocked' about being middle classed.

[russdev]

Anyway credit crunch is not going to effect me I am going to win the lottery on Saturday..

 

Power of positive you see dam just thought that might be classed as bit hippy oh heck now I have started something off...

 

Russ

[torledo]

Do you not think then that us people who bought our houses 25 years ago don't know what it's like to be broke? We only just survived financially for the first 5 years of being home owners, single income family, I couldn't work we had a child with a heart condition that only stabilised after an operation at the age of 2. We were so short of money if my husband's suit needed cleaning one month it was a financial disaster. He also went to uni one day/night a week to get a degree, eventually things got better, he was on yearly increments, got a couple of promotions and I got a job as a dinner lady at my sons local (state) school. My eldest son's just finished uni totally funded by himself and worked at the local pub to support himself, the youngest's a builder.

So sorry don't tell me that people like me don't know what a credit crunch is as I've said before I've read the book, ate the pie, worn the t shirt. I don't care whether I'm middle classed or not, but I do know is that what we have now is down to sheer hard work over the years and therefore ours to enjoy, hopefully without being 'mocked' about being middle classed.

 

chrbb....at what point did i say those who bought their houses years ago have never experienced a credit crunch.....i'll point you to what i actually said.

 

sure i accept everyone has felt the credit crunch pinch, but some people are uniquely positioned to cope with it due mainly to when they bought property

 

what is exactly wrong with what i've said....are you seriously suggesting that people who bought years ago and managed to weather the previous storms and who stuck with being home-owners despite high interest rates, haven't reaped the rewards of high employment, low interest rates and the soaring value of their main asset over the last 8 years ? My point is that they aren't as affected by this credit crunch we are currently experiencing mainly because of the nice decade offering this buffer for the 40-somethings and baby boomers.

 

i may be mocking the a certain section of the middle-classes, and for that i probably deserve a slap on the wrist for generalizing, but i've never believed that they've always had it easy....far from it. The old stories of high interest rates, strikes and having to live above a kebab house i hear from parents/work colleagues whenever i whine about the cost of buying a house.

[chrbb]

soaring value of their main asset over the last 8 years

 

That's only of any use if you are selling up and not buying another property, everything's relative.

 

i may be mocking the a certain section of the middle-classes, and for that i probably deserve a slap on the wrist for generalizing

 

I have no doubt life isn't a bed of roses for you witch, but next time you sit down at your piano with your IT expert husband (in his doubtless well paid job) you should spare a thought for people who've been priced out of the housing market....they are the real victims of the credit crunch, not the dual income home-owners who bought pre-2006. This govt. has for too long tried to woo middle england, for fear of upsetting them and losing their vote...as a result they have left house prices go unchecked, i think it's time really to focus on young couples and first-time buyers rather than worry about middle england seeing the value of their homes drop a few percent. What i see around me and the sandal-wearing piano players comment, masks a serious point about social mobility, or the lack of it.

 

Why such a dislike for what you refer to as middle class? Do you actually know what 'middle classed' is? You're not mixing it up with 'middle aged' are you?

 

Your preconceived image of a middle class household is classic:D

 

Husband and wife happily playing the piano together in their large palatial house. :D

More like snatching a couple of minutes together when one half finally gets home after a 100 mile round trip from the office and the other one is dealing with meals, kids and all matters family and house wise, or maybe one half is working away again and is away all week, bit tough to play the piano together in that senario.

[torledo]

That's only of any use if you are selling up and not buying another property, everything's relative.

 

 

 

 

 

Why such a dislike for what you refer to as middle class? Do you actually know what 'middle classed' is? You're not mixing it up with 'middle aged' are you?

 

Your preconceived image of a middle class household is classic:D

 

Husband and wife happily playing the piano together in their large palatial house. :D

More like snatching a couple of minutes together when one half finally gets home after a 100 mile round trip from the office and the other one is dealing with meals, kids and all matters family and house wise, or maybe one half is working away again and is away all week, bit tough to play the piano together in that senario.

 

so what then ? The piano is just for show ? How middle-class AND middle-aged is that

 

We're a single income household with young child, and i was ready and willing to put down over half my net income on monthly mortgage payments a year ago before i was beaten to the bell by a property speculator on a perfect starter family home....what's relative about the value of property is that a mortgage taken out 8 years ago on ANY property in most parts of the country is much more manageable than a mortgage taken out to purchase even the smallest of homes in the last 2 years by anyone with a 5 or 10% deposit.

 

A decent sized was property was sold near to me for 65k in 2001, with 5% deposit the mortgage would have been just around 60k at the interest rate of the time which wasn't high....today that property is worth three times that, most homes in the area start at 140k minimum if you're lucky....

 

it doesn't matter that those people who bought years ago don't sell there house to cash in, they've got a very manageable/modest mortgage and if they are a two income household then it's a piece of p*** quite frnakly....

 

A 130-140k mortgage for a two income household with kids is a manageable commitment, if one of the earners were to become redundant they would still have managed - it would have been tight while there was a single income,

 

but how many people who bought 8+ years ago have 130-140k mortgage commitments ?....in 1998 140k would have bought you something truly palatial....at that time i remember a friend of my fathers struglling to sell a huge 5 bed period property in a desirable area, his asking price was 90-95k from what i remember because 95k was a lot of money to buy a house back then...what can you get for 90k these days.

 

Last year we as a family were prepared to take out a 110k mortgage and had a decent deposit and that was on a single income, and we would have found a way to cope....but if that was a middle-class, middle-aged occasional piano player, they'd whine about needing a second income. How many people who bought 8+ years ago have that kind of mortgage commitment remaining even with two incomes ? If they do, i'd like to know what on earth they bought, but more importantly why they haven't paid the bulk of it off - especially with two incomes.

 

As for the 100 mile round trip, that's a choice you make, doesn't mean you don't find the time for a bit for tinkling on the ivories, making dinner AND playing with the kids. But someone who bought 8+ years ago doesn't need to make that trip, they can take a job closer to home, they're mortgage commitments can't be that huge and they have the buffer of the second income to find a different job. If they have massive mortgage commitments, and they shouldn't have if they bought at anywhere near market value, then they should downsize....

[chrbb]

Last year we as a family were prepared to take out a 110k mortgage and had a decent deposit and that was on a single income, and we would have found a way to cope....but if that was a middle-class, middle-aged occasional piano player, they'd whine about needing a second income.

 

What a load of rubbish - you obviously didn't read my post then we were a single income family for 9 years, I then got a job as a dinner lady earning £12.00 a week - hardly 2 incomes:) Since then I have only worked part time my family are my priority, my salary doesn't even cover our weekly food bill.

 

But someone who bought 8+ years ago doesn't need to make that trip, they can take a job closer to home, they're mortgage commitments can't be that huge and they have the buffer of the second income to find a different job.

 

Industry has changed over the last 10 years, particually the railway industry, you go where the work is, if it means travelling and not uprooting kids during vital exam years then thats what you do.

 

making dinner

In my house we call it tea:D are you sure you're not really a closet middle class person because thats quite a middle class expression:)

[torledo]

What a load of rubbish - you obviously didn't read my post then we were a single income family for 9 years, I then got a job as a dinner lady earning £12.00 a week - hardly 2 incomes:) Since then I have only worked part time my family are my priority, my salary doesn't even cover our weekly food bill.

 

 

 

Industry has changed over the last 10 years, particually the railway industry, you go where the work is, if it means travelling and not uprooting kids during vital exam years then thats what you do.

 

In my house we call it tea:D are you sure you're not really a closet middle class person because thats quite a middle class expression:)

 

teas what we used to have when we got home from school when we were kids.....waffles, smiley faces that type of thing as mum did most of her shopping at iceland, so no, not very middle class. sainsburys was considered posh in our house when we were young....

 

the point about dual incomes was not specifically aimed at you, but dual incomes has been the norm for the middle classes in past decade except in exceptional circumstances such as yours....or tends to be culturally specific.

 

in most instances the childcare system is geared up to allow both partners to be in full-time employment.