Making the best of a bad situation

[OllieC]

I inherited AV hell at my school and sorting it out is turning in to a loooong-term investment issue.

 

(some background for just how big the problem is:

- No fixed classroom speakers in most rooms

- Unicol ceiling plates screwed into plywood wedged between some strutting in the ceilings rather than the proper purlin clamps in all upstairs rooms

- VGA over cat5 baluns (unpowered, so it's shadow and flicker city)

- TDS boards, which are now unusable due to Intel chipset drivers and diminishing Windows 10 support

- Incompatible projector brackets so lots of bodge sheets of metal and wood bolted between the bracket and projectors.)

 

My biggest issue currently is the fact we're running VGA over UTP with unpowered baluns. The picture quality can be absolutely awful in places.

 

At my last school (where I was only teaching, so didn't pay as much attention), cat5 was used for the projectors but there was some kind of USB powered adapter that carried both VGA and audio to it, and I remember them working fantastically. I've really struggled to find these online, outside of the really expensive higher-end video over Cat5 distribution stuff, does anyone have any information?

 

Alternative to this I'll have to run proper cabling - for the sake of futureproofing, DVI would be most appropriate as I put new projectors in that support DVI (probably half and half currently), but that introduces more adapter issues as the PCs have a combination of VGA or DVI and staff laptops have VGA and display port.

 

Any information on those mysterious adapters or any thoughts on the above?

 

Cheers

Edited July 1, 2020 by OllieC

[synaesthesia]

Unless you're doing it all yuourself the cost of getting cables re-run, re-routed and mounts redone you won't be far off the cost of replacing with led panels!

[paulkerton]

Yeah, I'd be very tempted to look into your TCO here. Especially with the boards on the way out.

I'm with synaesthesia here. You might be better of investigating LED panel replacement for all of this.

Hell, even a cheap graphics card with HDMI being dropped into each machine might benefit you in the long run. Audio and video over one connection? Cuts a pain point!

[mikeprice]

Interactive panels are much better - especially in room with a lot of natural light

 

If you have big problems to fix old equipment then it doesn't make a lot of sense to spend that money on th eold stuff when you can spend it on new, better and more reliable stuff

 

I would start with a predicted cost over the next 5 years

I have done this in several schools - it is always worrying when senior staff regard this as a novel concept that they have never seen before - but it does focus their minds on reality rather than the upfront costs

[synaesthesia]

Especially when boards are being supplied and fitted for not much under £2.5k with all the cables you need!

[OllieC]

In an ideal world I'd just be putting up panels in each room, I'm even quite happy installing them myself to just knock that bit off the cost, but I just don't have the money to do more than 2 or 3 a year... my strategy thus far has been replace projectors with lampless Casios (~£500 ea.) and the bodge mounts with proper ones (~£50 ea.). I managed to score 30 Smart SB680s for under a grand (which I could only afford from savings elsewhere!) which has covered the urgent TDS replacements needed in the 3 departments that are really heavily invested in them.

 

My business manager is really open with the IT budget, I know that what I get to allocate is literally what there is, so there's no chance of asking for enough to redo even a percentage of rooms at £2.5k a room and the budget alone won't stretch considering other commitments like replacing machines around the school and upcoming projects like refreshing wireless and CCTV.

 

I'm usually able to buy 10 projectors a year, which is *just* about keeping up with demand, so there's absolutely no scope for stopping this rolling replacement to just put in 2-3 panels a year.

 

In other schools I've worked at there's been local area charitable grants etc that can pump sums upwards of £50k in for projects like this when needed - there is absolutely nothing like that available to me here. The closest I could get would be a Salix loan on the grounds of energy saving, but that's still a loan.

 

Sigh!

Edited July 1, 2020 by OllieC

[synaesthesia]

That's where the finance department should be coming into their own - they should indeed be taking into consideration TCO and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see the projector route even with the lampless ones is a money-pit.

[OllieC]

That's where the finance department should be coming into their own - they should indeed be taking into consideration TCO and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see the projector route even with the lampless ones is a money-pit.

 

Yeah there's just no money to go towards a project of this cost any time soon, especially when projectors can be made to work at a third of the cost per room; I work with the estates management as well and every spare penny is going towards keeping the buildings standing.

 

I can live with the plywood mountings as I check and confirm that they're appropriately secured, my biggest bugbear at the moment is the cabling.

[synaesthesia]

Certainly time to get a long term plan in place, particularly while the government are about to throw millions at schools to get them brought up to scratch buildings-wise - perhaps you can point out whilst they could effectively save money there you could earmark those savings for the AV equipment.

[OllieC]

£1bn with an overall £9.6bn estimated repair and renewal cost over the UK, we might get enough for a pot of polyfilla if we're lucky! Best I'm hoping for (and actively trying) is to leverage savings on capital expenditure if we *ever* see a successful CIF bid.

[DGardiner]

In an ideal world I'd just be putting up panels in each room, I'm even quite happy installing them myself to just knock that bit off the cost, but I just don't have the money to do more than 2 or 3 a year... my strategy thus far has been replace projectors with lampless Casios (~£500 ea.) and the bodge mounts with proper ones (~£50 ea.). I managed to score 30 Smart SB680s for under a grand (which I could only afford from savings elsewhere!) which has covered the urgent TDS replacements needed in the 3 departments that are really heavily invested in them.

 

My business manager is really open with the IT budget, I know that what I get to allocate is literally what there is, so there's no chance of asking for enough to redo even a percentage of rooms at £2.5k a room and the budget alone won't stretch considering other commitments like replacing machines around the school and upcoming projects like refreshing wireless and CCTV.

 

I'm usually able to buy 10 projectors a year, which is *just* about keeping up with demand, so there's absolutely no scope for stopping this rolling replacement to just put in 2-3 panels a year.

 

In other schools I've worked at there's been local area charitable grants etc that can pump sums upwards of £50k in for projects like this when needed - there is absolutely nothing like that available to me here. The closest I could get would be a Salix loan on the grounds of energy saving, but that's still a loan.

 

Sigh!

 

In some of our tight schools weve been putting up 65" tv's with chromecasts/appletv and the teachers just cast their devices to the board from wherever they work - they do have built in cast stuff but i havent looked at it to be honest and it seems to be working a treat, i honestly beleive the interactive thing is a gimmik, i find very few actually use it effectively. and its 1/2 1/3 the cost of a budget touch panel

[OllieC]

In some of our tight schools weve been putting up 65" tv's with chromecasts/appletv and the teachers just cast their devices to the board from wherever they work - they do have built in cast stuff but i havent looked at it to be honest and it seems to be working a treat, i honestly beleive the interactive thing is a gimmik, i find very few actually use it effectively. and its 1/2 1/3 the cost of a budget touch panel

 

It's a definite possibility! The more commercial end of these displays aren't ridiculously expensive and look the job. My only concerns is how easily broken they'd be.

I agree about interactivity being largely a gimmick, the 30 replacement SMART Boards are basically meeting the whole school's demand for interactivity. I'd even go as far to provide an alternative like a wacom tablet on request where people want some kind of pen input to the board. (Had to keep promethean or smart in areas that were heavily invested because of teachers with decades of stuff in activinspire format... can turn that in to smart notebook and provide basically the same functionality without needing to fork out for licenses).

[SamanthaD]

I inherited AV hell at my school and sorting it out is turning in to a loooong-term investment issue.

 

(some background for just how big the problem is:

- No fixed classroom speakers in most rooms

- Unicol ceiling plates screwed into plywood wedged between some strutting in the ceilings rather than the proper purlin clamps in all upstairs rooms

- VGA over cat5 baluns (unpowered, so it's shadow and flicker city)

- TDS boards, which are now unusable due to Intel chipset drivers and diminishing Windows 10 support

- Incompatible projector brackets so lots of bodge sheets of metal and wood bolted between the bracket and projectors.)

 

My biggest issue currently is the fact we're running VGA over UTP with unpowered baluns. The picture quality can be absolutely awful in places.

 

I'm sorry to say it like this but your biggest issue is projectors hanging over pupils heads that have been bodge mounted with makeshift, homemade, unrated adaptors and as you have correctly identified, incorrect mounting points.

 

It does sound like you want to rectify this but I would be stressing this as the primary reason you need funding to upgrade all of your rooms. Make it a Health and Safety issue, not a technology issue. Worst case all the projectors come down and teachers have to make do without. Best case you get asked "how can we fix this, quickly?" = £2.5k per room for a new panel.

 

As for the signal chain, I would look at either active HDMI cables or possibly the newer Fibre stuff. A 15m Van Damme Active HDMI cable costs £70 from CPC ex VAT, supports full resolution and isn't likely to fail like any balun or converter can. Worth consideration IMO!

[paulkerton]

i honestly beleive the interactive thing is a gimmik, i find very few actually use it effectively. and its 1/2 1/3 the cost of a budget touch panel

 

The only thing I like about interactive panels is they come with thick glass screens, rather than unprotected screens that are easily damaged.

But yes, the interactive side is a gimmick, especially if I can connect a HDMI or wirelessly send an image to it and put that interactivity in the teacher's device itself.

[jmak]

If you're looking to save money, you almost certainly don't need an installation service if you go for flat panels. Just a few screws in the wall - depending on school rules either you or site team could easily do it. I needed an extra pair of hands to help me lift the panel onto the mount - the commercial panels are heavier and they're a bit big to handle by yourself. No cables to run and just add a Chromecast or Apple TV if there isn't built in screen casting.

 

The built in speakers are often a bit quiet, and definitely not HiFi sound, but you could give it a go. Of it turns out you do need something better, either a soundbar or cheap active speaker would do the job.

[psydii]

the budget alone won't stretch considering other commitments like replacing machines around the school and upcoming projects like refreshing wireless and CCTV.

 

I feel the school might benefit from reconsidering its prioritisation here. If the AV is that bad, it will be having a detrimental impact on teaching and learning.

 

If the wifi is bad, you are probably not relying on it, so can make do for a bit longer.

 

Prioritising a CCTV system over T+L seems like madness to me. Cheap quick and nasty fixes to cover the barest essentials, and save that money for T+L focused matters.

 

 

Says the guy who put in wifi, cctv and still hasn't managed to do the AV. We had reasons for doing it in that order, perhaps you do too, but it's worth revisiting the strategy from time to time to see if it still makes sense.

[DGardiner]

The only thing I like about interactive panels is they come with thick glass screens, rather than unprotected screens that are easily damaged.

But yes, the interactive side is a gimmick, especially if I can connect a HDMI or wirelessly send an image to it and put that interactivity in the teacher's device itself.

 

Eh, if it would smash a standard TV panel it probably would have broke an old soft touch smart board thingy that its replacing!

 

 

This is entirely dependant on the school/thekids like but even if you have to replace one a year youre probably coming out ahead

[XiJ]

Have you thought of leasing? It’s a big capital outlay so worth thing a just perhaps to get a load of screens in at once

 

Tend to agree on the interactivity but though I do see teachers use it at primary. Increasingly wanting to cast tho.

 

The thing about commercial screens (which are so much more robust) is that they aren’t much less than interactive. Or more in some cases.

[DGardiner]

Have you thought of leasing? It’s a big capital outlay so worth thing a just perhaps to get a load of screens in at once

 

Tend to agree on the interactivity but though I do see teachers use it at primary. Increasingly wanting to cast tho.

 

The thing about commercial screens (which are so much more robust) is that they aren’t much less than interactive. Or more in some cases.

 

I dont like leasing, it puts you in a position of replacing every 3 years or returning/extending/buying out the agreement - it also tends to put you in the position of having too much gear to replace at the end so you never get out of the loop.

 

In recent years the servicable lifespan of a computer has extended a deal

[XiJ]

Yep I’m not massively keen on leasing - but for some large outlay projects it can work, depending on what you need and when.

[Wubbalubbadub]

I think if you approach leasing correctly it can work well. I never approach it with the thought that I will be sending it back.

 

At the end of the day, do you buy anything with the thought of replacing it in 3 years? Unlikely... Not many schools have the budget or foresight.

 

Just treat it as loan payments.

[witch]

You are all going off on wider tangents! The OP would like some advice on what to do, now this minute. Bigger purchases, whilst probably the right way to go, are not something he can consider at the moment

I know you clever lot can help - so please do

[DrBeaker]

You are all going off on wider tangents! The OP would like some advice on what to do, now this minute. Bigger purchases, whilst probably the right way to go, are not something he can consider at the moment

I know you clever lot can help - so please do

Yeah I think you need to think short-term (fire-fighting) and long-term (pro-active).

 

E.g. for me It's only now after being here for nearly 2x years I can even start to be proactive as we've been in fire-fighting mode since I started due to the sheer number of issues left by my predecessor.

 

You need SLT and the Head to decide on which approach they want you to take as it's a management decision at this point IMHO. Then go from there with the technical bits.

[psydii]

Ok Short Term fixes:

 

Are we sure its the Cat5 that's the problem? We have similar symptoms from time to time, and replacing the fly leads from the PC->Wall Box usually fixes it.

 

If that has no effect, try in one room replacing cat5 with pre-made cat6 it is less susceptible to interference and has better signal propagation. That should be better, if there are still signal issues, try replacing the baluns, and finally try shielded cat6a.

 

For sound, perhaps try sound bars - they offer the greatest versatility and would remain useful when you get time/funds to replace the rest of the kit. Teachers by the way love volume knobs they can easily reach, and bluetooth that can be disabled.

 

 

From your description there is a chance that the installation is so bad that Health and Safety might be (or become) a playable card to get funds reprioritised. The installation sounds so bad and inconsistent that there is no saving any of it.

 

Unreliable IT/AV in the classroom makes a *huge* difference to the to teaching and learning experience. Beyond bodging a cabling fix, you need to be ripping out the whole lot and installing something with far few components and offset the increased cost of a flat-panel screen against the simplicity of installation.