EdTech-Tom Posted July 16, 2020 Posted July 16, 2020 That's certainly plausible, as working from home without the MIS will have prompted lots of people to consider online alternatives. I think you're bang on the money here. Before Covid a lot of the wider education sector were quite cloud-hesitant (Not likely the people here, but the wider school staff). I've spoken to a lot of trusts and I've seen a massive change of attitude, people who wouldn't consider it before and were pushed are now seeing the benefits of remote learning, and are now asking me what the next step can be.
paulkerton Posted July 16, 2020 Posted July 16, 2020 MIS market update from @bringmoredata at Bring more data: Expect MIS switching volumes to decline in 2019/20. The latest figures alone won't put potential buyers off and would suggests there's a bit more cash to be milked from the cow! Q2 is likely to be a more interesting report in due course. It will be interesting to see if Covid-19 delays MIS switching in the short term but leads to a bigger surge later. Having read this blog, I think he would be right pre-Covid, but his analysis really doesn't seem to be taking Covid-19 and the pitfalls people have seen during it into account. I think that will shake up the market massively, particularly when it comes to ease of access to data.
bringmoredata Posted July 16, 2020 Posted July 16, 2020 I don't necessarily disagree Paul. As context, I try to limit the blog to commentary based on the hard data, rather than speculating about the future. I want it to be as objective as possible and speculation can veer into subjective bias too easily. But yes, what you say is absolutely plausible. Nobody is sitting at home, trying to squeeze data out of SIMS through a VPN (or not able to access it at all) thinking "yay, locally hosted!". Having read this blog, I think he would be right pre-Covid, but his analysis really doesn't seem to be taking Covid-19 and the pitfalls people have seen during it into account. I think that will shake up the market massively, particularly when it comes to ease of access to data. 1
paulkerton Posted July 16, 2020 Posted July 16, 2020 Nobody is sitting at home, trying to squeeze data out of SIMS through a VPN (or not able to access it at all) thinking "yay, locally hosted!". 😂😂😂 Couldn't agree more. Always look forward to your blogs by the way!
bringmoredata Posted July 16, 2020 Posted July 16, 2020 Thanks! When I started writing about this in 2014 I didn't think many people would care. I'm still pleasantly surprised and grateful when people get something from it... 😂😂😂 Couldn't agree more. Always look forward to your blogs by the way!
Ditto Posted July 17, 2020 Posted July 17, 2020 Arbor win 72 schools in one go - not sure how many are SIMS, but I guess we can assume 75%? Just shows some MATS are still reviewing there MIS usage in spite of Covid-19 - http://www.edugeek.net/forums/mis-systems/216463-arbor-wins-big-mat.html#post1852851 1
PhilNeal Posted July 18, 2020 Posted July 18, 2020 (edited) I'm pretty certain that none are SIMS! Edited July 18, 2020 by PhilNeal
Ditto Posted July 18, 2020 Posted July 18, 2020 (edited) I'm pretty certain that none are SIMS! Interesting. Not a good sample, but when I checked the first two schools on the United Learning against a FOI spreadsheet for Summer 2019 census, the first two schools (Abbey Hey and Accrington primaries), both were SIMS. I know United Learning also have independent school (where I'd guess iSAMS is more prevalent), but the report did say the state schools were involved in the shift. Is your knowledge that most of them are currently with another MIS supplier? *** Edit *** Having checked the last school in UL's list, that was Arbor already, so I'll have to pull the data together more thoroughly or wait until someone who has the data (I can guess who!) steps in. I'm not sure if any of the FOI datasets include the parent trust for MAT schools - that'll make it easy. Edited July 18, 2020 by Ditto
adamsund Posted July 18, 2020 Posted July 18, 2020 I'm pretty certain that none are SIMS! I can assure you there are quite a lot of them.
Ditto Posted July 18, 2020 Posted July 18, 2020 After a bit more analysis, I reckon it's around the mid 40's that are SIMS. There's at least 13 Arbor already, a few RM and 1 Advanced Learning. Didn't notice any Bromcom.
bringmoredata Posted July 19, 2020 Posted July 19, 2020 After a bit more analysis, I reckon it's around the mid 40's that are SIMS. There's at least 13 Arbor already, a few RM and 1 Advanced Learning. Didn't notice any Bromcom. Sorry I was slow to respond. 56 of UL's schools were SIMS as of the 2019 autumn census. The others were with Advanced, RM and Arbor. So yes, the losses for SIMS from this are quite significant. 2
vikpaw Posted July 20, 2020 Posted July 20, 2020 (edited) MIS market update from @bringmoredata at Bring more data: Expect MIS switching volumes to decline in 2019/20. The latest figures alone won't put potential buyers off and would suggests there's a bit more cash to be milked from the cow! Q2 is likely to be a more interesting report in due course. It will be interesting to see if Covid-19 delays MIS switching in the short term but leads to a bigger surge later. This made me think, all other factors aside (including COVID), we've not heard much from anyone affected directly in terms of their appetite to change in light of this news. So I've added a poll, for current SIMS users. We've seen oodles of speculation on the hows and whys, but ultimately, I think it would be interesting to hear from SIMS users whether they are worried about the foreseeable, any impacts etc. and how this affects their thoughts on jumping ship. Edited July 20, 2020 by vikpaw 1
bringmoredata Posted July 20, 2020 Posted July 20, 2020 Great idea to have a poll of SIMS users vikpaw! Intrigued to see what the results show... This made me think, all other factors aside (including COVID), we've not heard much from anyone affected directly in terms of their appetite to change in light of this news. So I've added a poll, for current SIMS users. We've seen oodles of speculation on the hows and whys, but ultimately, I think it would be interesting to hear from SIMS users whether they are worried about the foreseeable, any impacts etc. and how this affects their thoughts on jumping ship.
Norphy Posted July 20, 2020 Posted July 20, 2020 In the short to medium term, I don't think that Capita looking to sell ESS off is going to have much on of impact on the likelihood of our MAT moving away from SIMS. No-one particularly likes the product but the fact of the matter is that it's deeply, deeply entrenched in our organisation and moving away from it would not be a simple process. Yes, there are conversations about moving away from it but those conversations were being had long before this was announced. I guess we will see what happens. 1
vikpaw Posted July 20, 2020 Posted July 20, 2020 This made me think, all other factors aside (including COVID), we've not heard much from anyone affected directly in terms of their appetite to change in light of this news. So I've added a poll, for current SIMS users. We've seen oodles of speculation on the hows and whys, but ultimately, I think it would be interesting to hear from SIMS users whether they are worried about the foreseeable, any impacts etc. and how this affects their thoughts on jumping ship. UPDATE: N.B. Poll results are public. I think to see the results you need to take part, so question re-worded and an "irrelevant' option added so you can take part and view the results without skewing the stats.
enjay Posted July 20, 2020 Posted July 20, 2020 We've seen oodles of speculation on the hows and whys, but ultimately, I think it would be interesting to hear from SIMS users whether they are worried about the foreseeable, any impacts etc. and how this affects their thoughts on jumping ship. For us, SIMS is mainly a base platform from which things we actually use extract data. As soon as Go4Schools release their MIS, i imagine we'll be gone. 1
vikpaw Posted July 20, 2020 Posted July 20, 2020 For us, SIMS is mainly a base platform from which things we actually use extract data. As soon as Go4Schools release their MIS, i imagine we'll be gone. So you're not worried about what impact a potential buyer might have? Change in support, development, funds directed to make it handle Census, rise in cost, heaven forbid they just give notice that they are shutting up shop and stripping the entity down to sell for parts. Not sure what those parts are, just said that for dramatic effect!
enjay Posted July 20, 2020 Posted July 20, 2020 So you're not worried about what impact a potential buyer might have? Change in support, development, funds directed to make it handle Census, rise in cost, heaven forbid they just give notice that they are shutting up shop and stripping the entity down to sell for parts. Not sure what those parts are, just said that for dramatic effect! I'm not sure how you got that from what I wrote, Vikpaw. I said we don't interact directly with SIMS much, and you took that to mean I'm not worried about SIMS being canned.
vikpaw Posted July 20, 2020 Posted July 20, 2020 I'm not sure how you got that from what I wrote, Vikpaw. I said we don't interact directly with SIMS much, and you took that to mean I'm not worried about SIMS being canned. I read it in a voice that was playing down the importance of SIMS, i.e. no importance, no effect etc. Thanks for the correction!
enjay Posted July 20, 2020 Posted July 20, 2020 I read it in a voice that was playing down the importance of SIMS, i.e. no importance, no effect etc. Thanks for the correction! No, SIMS is definitely important to us, but not as much as for some schools. We don't, for example, use it for lesson registration, achievement and behaviour tracking, SEN information, intervention tracking, data collection, etc. Admission is still done through SIMS, as is timetabling. Other than that, SIMS is a common data source for other things to extract via Groupcall, Wonde, etc. Support issues and price rises following the change of ownership are a concern, lack of ongoing development is not (as long as it continues to do what it does now, and run census). Go4Schools are working on an MIS, so when that is released, we will most likely migrate. As long as that comes out before SIMS goes totally down the tubes, we'll be okay. 1
supportman Posted July 20, 2020 Posted July 20, 2020 In the short to medium term, I don't think that Capita looking to sell ESS off is going to have much on of impact on the likelihood of our MAT moving away from SIMS. No-one particularly likes the product but the fact of the matter is that it's deeply, deeply entrenched in our organisation and moving away from it would not be a simple process. Yes, there are conversations about moving away from it but those conversations were being had long before this was announced. I guess we will see what happens. As a school thats recently moved away from Sims and was also worried about this entrenchment and particularly 3rd party software that people loved and relied on, I can safely say that it wasn't an issue. We moved and simply brought many of those services into the MIS. Its worked very well and you realise how limited and broken up Sims actually is when you finally move to another product. 1
vikpaw Posted July 21, 2020 Posted July 21, 2020 No, SIMS is definitely important to us, but not as much as for some schools. We don't, for example, use it for lesson registration, achievement and behaviour tracking, SEN information, intervention tracking, data collection, etc. Admission is still done through SIMS, as is timetabling. Other than that, SIMS is a common data source for other things to extract via Groupcall, Wonde, etc. Support issues and price rises following the change of ownership are a concern, lack of ongoing development is not (as long as it continues to do what it does now, and run census). Go4Schools are working on an MIS, so when that is released, we will most likely migrate. As long as that comes out before SIMS goes totally down the tubes, we'll be okay. Interesting, and it looks like it will be coming soon: We'll be rolling out the MIS in two phases - a pilot phase with selected schools from September 2020, and then publicly for academic year 2021-2022
PhilNeal Posted July 29, 2020 Posted July 29, 2020 Arbor & ScholarPack are being merged now. Exciting times! 1
Ditto Posted July 29, 2020 Posted July 29, 2020 Arbor & ScholarPack are being merged now. Exciting times! Is this published anywhere - can't see it on their websites? Is it an equal merger or more takeover? 1
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