[sims] Capita is trying to sell off non-core businesses (SIMS is for sale)

[enjay]

iA cloud MIS with a freely available API is MORE accessible than a local DB not less and its again only probably down to the market monopoly that some providers have historically not integrated with other MIS but that is rarely the case now.

 

API access would be acceptable. The APIs would need to be made readily available. I remember asking one company who had a slightly cumbersome SIMS extraction tool why they weren't using Groupcall and they told me the licensing costs were too high so they wrote their own tool.

 

There would of course be a period of delay while all the ed tech providers catch up and update their systems to use the SIMS APIs.

[DODICT]

I know Advanced tried to charge for API at one point and quickly back tracked but as far as I know all are now pretty well supported, documented and freely available. And you as a customer can indeed extract from your own API - crazy idea that one isn't it, being able to access and use your own data !!!! Although most also have more flexible and powerful reporting mechanisms to extract your data as a user than SIMs also.

 

Either way the most compelling argument I make for moving from the creaking mess that is SIMs is to more readily access and make better use of your data. Your MIS should be a tool that supports decision making at all levels not a part time job for IT staff and a familiar data collection tool for the rest.

[enjay]

Either way the most compelling argument I make for moving from the creaking mess that is SIMs is to more readily access and make better use of your data. Your MIS should be a tool that supports decision making at all levels not a part time job for IT staff and a familiar data collection tool for the rest.

 

And increasingly often, the MIS seems to just be a common base platform for other products to feed from. Most of our staff never even log in to SIMS, which is odd considering SIMS is the second-largest invoice in my contracts budget.

[DrBeaker]

I know Advanced tried to charge for API at one point and quickly back tracked but as far as I know all are now pretty well supported, documented and freely available. And you as a customer can indeed extract from your own API - crazy idea that one isn't it, being able to access and use your own data !!!! Although most also have more flexible and powerful reporting mechanisms to extract your data as a user than SIMs also.

 

Either way the most compelling argument I make for moving from the creaking mess that is SIMs is to more readily access and make better use of your data. Your MIS should be a tool that supports decision making at all levels not a part time job for IT staff and a familiar data collection tool for the rest.

And increasingly often, the MIS seems to just be a common base platform for other products to feed from. Most of our staff never even log in to SIMS, which is odd considering SIMS is the second-largest invoice in my contracts budget.

The amount of plugins, data connectors etc on the SIMS server pulling data into other systems is what concerns me. There should be a far easier way to get the data out from SIMs with simple export/import type systems without me having to contact about 12x different providers to get everything back up and running on a new SIMs server.

[enjay]

The amount of plugins, data connectors etc on the SIMS server pulling data into other systems is what concerns me. There should be a far easier way to get the data out from SIMs with simple export/import type systems without me having to contact about 12x different providers to get everything back up and running on a new SIMs server.

 

That's the theory behind centralised things like Groupcall and Wonde, but there are so many of those now too, some of which we have installed for just one product anyway!

[DrBeaker]

That's the theory behind centralised things like Groupcall and Wonde, but there are so many of those now too, some of which we have installed for just one product anyway!

 

I've had Groupcall do it one way, Cunninghams/Biostore do it another way, one company just install an app which runs as a service, and numerous other types of these things.

 

Nothing seems consistent with their approach. It seems they've done this purely so they don't have to pay Groupcall any fees etc if they use their own method of collecting/extracting data.

[enjay]

I've had Groupcall do it one way, Cunninghams/Biostore do it another way, one company just install an app which runs as a service, and numerous other types of these things.

 

It's better/worse than that, even, as there are two Groupcall exporters, the local one and the cloud-based one. We have both running!

[keyboards]

If there is a massive change, there is going to be a lot of staff found wanting that refuse to adapt to new things..

[paulkerton]

If there is a massive change, there is going to be a lot of staff found wanting that refuse to adapt to new things..

If people refused to adapt to change in any other work place, then they wouldn't be in their workplace for long. Imagine a staff refusing to be trained on a new piece of kit that any other company required.

The tail should not wag the dog.

[Andrew_C]

Imagine a staff refusing to be trained on a new piece of kit that any other company required.

The tail should not wag the dog.

 

Printers

Railways

Miners

Weavers

...

[paulkerton]

Printers

Railways

Miners

Weavers

...

 

Yes. And who won those disputes? The printers got a Wapping, for example...

[DODICT]

If there is a massive change, there is going to be a lot of staff found wanting that refuse to adapt to new things..

You say that but I've not found that to be the case - the vast majority of roles and processes in schools can be more readily and effectively supported by a modern, fully functional MIS and within weeks of changing these staff are doing things things better or more efficiently. Its what they know so I get people want the comfort of a known tool to do their job but when its widely accepted that tool is well out of date and ineffective you're missing out on medium and long term gain for some very short term pain !

 

Capita's monopoly has been well back up by this fear of change in regard to MIS - its discussed like it will set a school back years !! There is a attitude I see frequently that 'well its taken me 10 years to really get to grips with SIMS I dont want to lose that' - It SHOULDNT take you 10 years to get to grips with !!

 

Add in I'm glad to see a change of MIS is often taken as an opportunity to review processes and you will find many of these must haves or must do's from legacy MIS aren't really needed at all or can be replaced by more effective or automated processes. This is where you get the fear of 'will I still have job ?' - and again this is largely an unwarranted response, yes we need you but you going to be doing something more impactful from no on . . .

[synaesthesia]

You would think that standardisation of some technology/terminology would or should help - after all, most MIS speak the same language when it comes to sending information to the government and eachother, so it shouldn't be too much out of the way for a SIMS data manager to change from one to the other. Like anything, there may be a difference in basic terms, interface and what not but a register is still a register, a CTF is still a CTF and the data is still data. Being held to ransom for the sake of "being used to something" isn't an excuse, otherwise we'd be languishing with crap wooden houses, leaded petrol in our cars and drinks bottles you can only open with a bottle opener.

[Andycat]

My librarian has had contact from the Library software saying they've been sold already, along with SIMS. I've not had anything from anyone though.

[willtech]

We seen the following from a sims support provider (SIPS):

 

Sips update on Capita MIS Systems

 

Capita have announced to the market on Friday 19th June that it is preparing to sell Educational Software Solutions (ESS) – which includes SIMS .net and FMS.

 

The decision to sell Capita ESS is part of a group-wide transformation programme to simplify the organisation [Capita] and focus on its consulting, transformation and digital services businesses.

 

Andy Bennett, Managing Director of Capita ESS said: “Our key objective is to continue to develop and grow ESS as a leading specialist in education software. We are confident that we will find a suitable owner for ESS who provides a better fit and is well placed to further invest and take the business forward.”

 

Director of IT and Communications at SIPS, Chris Hinson added: “Following a meeting involving SIPS and Capita on Tuesday (23/06/20), I can confirm that the impact on your software and services from Capita will be minimal – the message that is coming out loud and clear is that it is very much Business As Usual.”

 

“Capita are still committed to the investment with both time and money to all the on-going projects including SIMS 8 (the cloud based version of both Primary and Secondary software) and have also committed to producing a road map detailing key dates in its delivery of updates and releases of new software over the next few weeks. Capita have also reassured us, and the market that this will have very little impact moving forward and we are very confident the only change will be ‘a changing of name above the door’.”

Edited June 26, 2020 by willtech

[paulkerton]

Sips update on Capita MIS Systems

 

As someone familiar with SIPS, to paraphrase Mandy Rice-Davies

"Well they would say that, wouldn't they?"

[synaesthesia]

So are SIPS the prospective purchasers?

[paulkerton]

So are SIPS the prospective purchasers?

No. They couldn't ever afford it. By about £498m short.

They're one of their largest support providers. Span out of Sandwell Council, they're supporting schools across the UK now with SIMS.

They're pretty good at it. Got some talented staff.

They're also very dedicated to it, at all costs. Won't entertain other platforms than Windows because of it, I found. The mere mention of Apple or Chromebooks usually lead to me being sneared at as if I was telling a Porsche driver the benefits of a G-Whizz. Their dismissiveness of the cloud for MIS was palpable too, until SIMS 8 was announced.

They really should diversify and support Arbor, Bromcom, iSAMS too, but they won't. They're too married to SIMS.

Edited June 26, 2020 by paulkerton

[dmj]

If I had a spare £500 million I would buy it just to burn the source code so that it never sees the light of day again.

[paulkerton]

If I had a spare £500 million I would buy it just to burn the source code so that it never sees the light of day again.

Don't hold back, tell us how you really feel... :laugh:

[Edu-IT]

Does ESS include SIMS Finance (Cloud)?

[PhilNeal]

No but I'd expect a reseller agreement to be put in place.

[Brimstone]

No. They couldn't ever afford it. By about £498m short.

They're one of their largest support providers. Span out of Sandwell Council, they're supporting schools across the UK now with SIMS.

They're pretty good at it. Got some talented staff.

They're also very dedicated to it, at all costs. Won't entertain other platforms than Windows because of it, I found. The mere mention of Apple or Chromebooks usually lead to me being sneared at as if I was telling a Porsche driver the benefits of a G-Whizz. Their dismissiveness of the cloud for MIS was palpable too, until SIMS 8 was announced.

They really should diversify and support Arbor, Bromcom, iSAMS too, but they won't. They're too married to SIMS.

I’ve had many a conversation with them as well, they have no idea.... I bet they are sweating on who buys SIMS

[ozydave]

If Civica purchase it we are all doomed

[paulkerton]

I’ve had many a conversation with them as well, they have no idea.... I bet they are sweating on who buys SIMS

I would be too. That support side is a huge chunk of the business as a whole and it's a huge risk moving forward.