degrees

[russdev]

Degrees

 

Hello need some advice if to try and get some papers to prove that I can do the job

 

As I was one of those people who went to college and then straight into real world I never got a degree anyway anyone know if you do distance learning on undergraduate computing/it degree (or what ever it is called) of some kind..

 

Merits for against doing etc this is based on the fact that then got to look into cosat of it all 

 

Cheers

 

Russ

[alan-d]

Industry Quals such as MCSE & CCNA would prob be more beneficial - it depends on where you want to go as to what you require

[webman]

I'm in a similar boat, except I started as a Technician straight after GCSEs. School have paid for NVQ 2 (IT Practitioner) training and now CCNA. I still don't know which direction I'm heading in long-term, I just sit and wait to see what the year brings my way If the school has some sort of CPD thing then you should be OK

[indiegirl]

I'll be following this thread too, as I'm very interested to see what people's schools will pay for to put them through.

 

I have a degree, but in English (!)... wormed my way into IT thanks to HSBC's graduate scheme, even though it was Unix-project management!

 

Desperately seeking ways to prove my worth here, so I'm going to look at courses too, only problem is that I have no money (personally) to spend on them, so will have to hope that the school offers to help out.

[russdev]

but in some ways biggist problem i have is lot of empyees want people with a degree

 

the thing i am not sure where iw ant to go at moment was thinking about bcs course which degree equlivant and htern from there can do masters degree.

 

i know with bcs course you can industry course count towards it..

 

i dont know...

 

russ

[GrumbleDook]

I started an OU degree ... but quickly found that most stuff was out of date and not relevant, or not even slightly related to the job.

 

I am still waiting to hear back about the foundation degree incorporating CCNA, MCSE, etc, that Cisco are preparing ...

 

I think that any course containing FITS is going to ba a looooong way after after that Meeting we went to, Russ.

[TechMonkey]

I am 3 months away from finishing a Foundation Degree in Esystems design and Technology. Foundation Degrees are what are taking over from HND's and the whole course is part-time one done over 4 years. Only problem is I have to decide whether I want to continue for another year full time or 2 part time to make it a degree. Work have been good in that they have paid 30% each year, better than nothing.

It's been interesting but also frustrating but I'm never sure whether the frustrations are from the specific place I am doing it or are general.

The other thing I will say is that companies don't know what they want. They say they want a degree but then say they need experience. I came out of college and basically went into this job and now doing Uni part time but people I know that have done IT degrees and have had a hell of a time even getting seen by employers just becuase they have no experience and even then end up in something they are happy to get becuase nothing else seems to be available!

 

Not sure what my point is but I am also at that point of not sure where to head or what to do so we could all do it together and give each other moral support!

[kingswood]

I am part through an HND in Network Management- my HNC was in Computer Support and Maintenance. I'm working towards a degree (BSc)- but that'll be another two years away. The school paid for my HND! I was gobsmacked really- since I only asked them to pay some(thing) towards it.

 

My wife has started a degree with the OU in Computer Science- and from what I have seen once you get to level two and three materials things get heavy and concentrate on abstract principles of the job or societal impact of technology- or even- programming (brrrrr!). However, a degree (I think) is still worth more than a vendor-specific certificate (and lasts longer too). With an MCSE you have that so long as MS don't change the tests and upgrade the OS (which thankfully they *do*). Same with CCNA or whatever. A degree in an IT subject not only lays a good foundation for your career but suggests other things to prospective employers too- not just your academic level. It means more to an employer than some of us realise.

 

This April I'm studying for an MCP in Server 2003 management. It's good to do, because it's specific to my tasks at work. Even so, my HND/BSc will be the mainstay of my study for the future because it will *last* the future. The MCP (if I pass) will be relevant for a time and then need upgrading. Once out of dat, it won't look so big on a CV.

 

I think it depends on the individual, but I would definitely go with the degree option. A good BSc in Computer Science or Technology in general would stand you in good stead- especially considering the experience you have in IT anyway. It would be the icing on that experience rather than a proof of that experience!

 

Paul

[SpuffMonkey]

I'd go along with Kingswood - a degree from the the OU would give you a good foundation in many aspects of computing - but its a heck of a commitment. Vendor quals are all very well, but if you want to climb the slippery pole - a BSc is handy to have on your CV.

[DMcCoy]

Did mine first

 

Took a year out after a levels, ended up working back at the school. I did cover for a science technician for a week, then moved on to IT where I stayed for the rest of the year.

 

Went to uni and did computer science BSc (maths! so much maths!). I had a placement year during uni (third year) and got desperate after I didn't find much. Wrote to local businesses and schools and ended up at a different school (then they discovered they had to pay me, but they managed to). I stayed there for the year and then went back for my final year. After I finished my degree a place opened up back at the school I did my placement, so I started there after my last exams!

 

Nearly 3 years later and I'm still here

[john]

I am very interested in this area as I have no degree, been working since A levels. Distance Learning appeals to me, I have looked at the Lancaster Uni IT thingy website, looks nice, be interested in hearing for people who have done that, as I could possibly wangle the 1 week study week things from work as they are keen to support me doing something like a degree / certification.

[u8dmtm]

The view someone made about their degree being out of date etc is to miss the point - I thought it too until I graduated 5 years ago. Degrees are not there to teach you to use a specific system like MCSE would, they give you the skills and thinking power to work any system out for yourself whether its networking, coding, logic etc.

 

I've got a degree in Computer Science and it is well worth it, it opens up the entire range of IT careers and is respected well above any sort of certification.

 

It is also a good starting point towards BCS professional qualifications - you get AMBCS staright away and MBCS which is full professional membership after a few years experience. Then there is chartered status etc.

[GrumbleDook]

It was me that said about the OU courses being out of date ...

 

The context behind this is really a case of that I needed to pick up qualifications to a) help me with my job and b) give me better career opportunities.

 

Because I did not want to end up a teacher, but still stay in education I invested my time in researching and being involved in more up to date activities, based around education (Becta Research Networks, peer support groups, etc) rather than the degree (the school I was at presumed I would get a degree and want to be a teacher ... why would I ever want to give up doing support?)

 

This has led me to my present position (where I have to give up doing support!) and I can now go for a Masters without a first degree, mainly due to my experience and work rate.

 

The reason I suggested the foundation degree route is that it is both current and transferable ... best of both worlds.

[barryfl]

This is a good one and was the question I was asking myself September just gone.

 

I have deferred my university place for this year so I can take some time out of full time education, Get myself some money etc.

Also gave me a bit more breathing time to finish CCNA,MCDST,MCSA Security and MCSE.

 

The degree I went for was the Network Engineering one. I still haven’t 100% decided what I am going to do about this and have until about July to make my mind up.

 

The one thing you can say about a degree is that employers never see it as 'expired' whereas an MCSE in NT is considered old technology (I say this even though its still used, Further, how ironic considering the acronym ‘NT’ )

 

Degrees are nine time out of ten older than any vendor qualification held.

The thing I hate about degrees is that people view the fact you have done a degree as a sign you are smarter, More hard working and generally have a better ability to do the job when actually this isn't the case at all.

I find it really hard when looking for higher paid jobs because they all want degrees.

 

And for what?

 

Just to say that I had $10,000 worth of debt at the end of it. I work hard now still with further development in my own time. Is this not as good as a degree?

 

I will not fall in to this pathetic way of thinking even if it doesn't get me the most high paid job. Employers need to change there attitudes on degrees. There not everything.

 

That’s my view on the whole degrees thing. Russ, Back to your main questions…’What’s the benefits?’

 

Hmmm my honest answer is that your C.V won’t get discarded automatically by someone handling the initial wave of CV’s who knows NOTHING about IT

 

Regards,

 

Barry Leonard

[Pear]

I started a HND/Foundation degree in September. I do it part time, 4 modules at a total of £640 a year (better than £3k) which I have to pay myself (although there are grants). I go down on Thursday evenings and Fridays. I get all of Friday off work but have to make it up the rest of the week and holidays. The 4 modules I do count towards whatever degree I end up doing in the end. I think its 18 I have to do to get a full degree.

 

The ones I have been doing this year are:

Web Development which is using photoshop and dreamweaver, learning xhtml and css.

Problem Solving, general maths and not much fun.

System analysis and design which is mainly about databases.

C++ programming.

 

It hasn't just taught me how to use computers but how to apply my brain to certain challenges.

[TechMonkey]

I started a HND/Foundation degree in September. I do it part time, 4 modules at a total of £640 a year (better than £3k) which I have to pay myself (although there are grants). I go down on Thursday evenings and Fridays. I get all of Friday off work but have to make it up the rest of the week and holidays. The 4 modules I do count towards whatever degree I end up doing in the end. I think its 18 I have to do to get a full degree.

 

The ones I have been doing this year are:

Web Development which is using photoshop and dreamweaver, learning xhtml and css.

Problem Solving, general maths and not much fun.

System analysis and design which is mainly about databases.

C++ programming.

 

It hasn't just taught me how to use computers but how to apply my brain to certain challenges.

 

IS that 4 modules at a time or 4 modules over a year? We are the 2nd cohort going through the Foundation Degree at Brighton Uni and before it was decided to take over from HND. This means we have been doing 3 modules a semester (so 6 a year) and now find that we will be shafted a bit as the new course will be cut back to less. All our tutors have commented on the workload compared to HND's but I fear that there will be nothing doing.

I would love to stop and go do a degree in Network Engineering or BSc but I don't think I could stop working to do it (Ok I just love the money!). I feel now I am at point that I don't want to be learning the concepts, as a degree should be doing, but want specific knowledge and the recognition that I am able to do it.

[pshuttle]

I feel that my degree was mainly a very good solid theoretical grounding in Computer Science and that is how it must be treated. It was not vendor specific - neither was it an industry qualification - those I will have to gain whilst moving up in my career.

 

However, I believe that it DOES make employers take you seriously - especially if you can back up a good academic background with experience AND industry qualifications such as a CCNA/CCNP (amongst others).

 

I feel that each of these on there own will not make you particularly employable - but if you can combine all of them:

 

Degree - Experience - Industry Quals + Good interpersonal skills (a balanced individual).

 

.....then you are in a good position to move up quickly in your chosen career.

 

Pete

[Cyber-Dude]

Personally I would rather have an MSCE and CCNA than a degree.

 

Most jobs do not ask for a degree but rather experience and the right industry recognised qualifications. I think a degree is handle when you get into management level. Management means coordinating a team of people who have the right skills which you may not have.

[danIT]

im an IT technician with no IT qualifications of any sort!

 

perhaps lookig for an MCSE though seems to be what people are looking for round here, that and experience.

[Joedetic]

I'm currently a VI Form student and also a Student ICT technician at my school. This means that i 've gained a lot of experience in ICT support and various server technologies.

 

I have been very lucky to have been involved from the beginning of this network build (ie server 2k3 + AD etc as opposed to RM's CC3) meaning that i've been able to be taught and experienced the new technology as it was implemented. Due to this "watching + learning" i have been able to replicate a lot of stuff on servers at home. I have also been given chances to implement new technologies and management systems. We were using OTRS helpdesk that was implemented by a techie that left and didnt set it up right. So I moved us over to liberum which suits are needs much better than OTRS. I was also responsible for the implementation of windows media server for various things.

 

The advice i have recieved from from technicians at the school and ones that have visited from external companies has been varied. Some say to go and do my Cisco and Microsoft certifications, not a degree, and go straight into the world of work. But i've decided on a route i've found for myself.

 

I'm starting a Network Engineering (BEng) degree at stafford university in september and that will allow me to also get my CCNA at the same time.

 

This degree incorparates a placement year in the third year so anyone looking for a partly qualified network engineer in 2009/2010 let me know

 

But i've descovered that ICT and LANS are something i love and ICT support is something i enjoy doing, and obviously it's something i want to persue as a career. Seeing as i've had experience of the education sector i think it'd do me good to get experience of the corporate sector too.

 

Can anyone shed any light on which they have found to be the best line of employment so far? Educational, Coporate or sort of LEA level GfL management?

 

 

Joe

[Dos_Box]

The problem with MCSE's is that they don't last forever. The courses at Lancaster Uni are well worth the money though.

[Geoff]

MSCE,

Cisco CNA,

BCS level 2,

BSc. (Hons) Software Eng.

[StewartKnight]

I've started a foundation degree at Lancs Uni, it's a lot more relevant than the OU course, and slighly cheaper. If you go for the bogstandard degree in Networking and Systems, it's about £2k, and there is a discount for edugeek members.

[Printer45]

I would agree with some of the sentiments the cost effectiveness of the whole degree element calls into question the relevance, where the financial reward are incompatible with the debt. For some the relevant pay scale will diminish the worry of carrying this amount of debt and statistically probably more beneficial than not.

 

Does the kudos of having studied in a premier university have any bearing on employment and would experience ever surpass qualifications.

[bossman]

As i have spent the last six years gaining qualifications that i thought would take me up the ladder of success (HNC/HND, degree computer science,, MCSE, MCSA, MCP, A+ etc) i have been constantly reminded of the fact i am in education and that i am only regarded as a "support member of Staff" and not a "teaching member of Staff" and so my remittance for this is far less than my professional counterpart, although they have considerably less qualifications and have probably never had to update for the past 30 years. Why is this?, could anybody tell me?