So... NHS Contact Tracing App

[mikeprice]

Problem is, they really should be doing a better job with IT in general. This is all about a wider scale problem that exists where no one really cares about IT - "just work". And when it fails, you have that magical reactive state pop up.

 

I don't mind mistakes or issues, they were expected to get a system up and running from scratch. You need the equipment for the workers - coders, engineers and technicians and people supporting them and being run by someone qualified and experienced. Plan of attack on what they all need before the app is even started. Not to mention employing those staff which can take 2 weeks IF they get decent salaries on offer right away - I bet they held the salaries back which meant another 2 weeks if they didn't employ everyone they needed. I wonder what kind of a contract they got offered? 6 months? I wouldn't waste my time even if it offered a lot more salary.

 

That's 4 weeks before you've noted down exactly what this app needs to do.... I've heard it a few times 10 years ago "we need an app!"... sure.. what do you want to do.. "I don't know"..... So, you need backend servers that will hold the data securely (SQL and not a god damn XLS sheet).. it needs to be able to read data from different areas of our country (with some of them using OLD! systems...).. it needs to be live data or updated daily? automatic updating? Some one needs to be importing/linking/connecting that data.. not to mention a good network/broadband for that data.. where does it store it? do they consider using things like O365/Google accounts to link up and email addresses?

 

I bet you had IT people screaming at what they needed... and some IT manager (you know the type.... a bit like that head of ICT that did 6 months of IT support = they are fully qualified to do your job)... just ignoring those screams...

 

 

Yup - business IT can be like that

 

someone comes up with a wonderful way to create this great new system much much quicker because IT say it will take 6 months to do it

 

 

so it gets implemented by Fred (who knows computers) in 3 weeks

 

then IT have to drop everything to actually get the data to do something

 

and change the system to make it actually do something useful

 

then support a system held together with chewing gum and string for the next 5 years

 

 

and all the time getting told how wonderful it is that such a wonderful systems could be implemented in 3 weeks - and how great Fred is and how he is working on something else now - $deity knows what but you know you will find out - normally via a phone call 5 minutes before home time on a Friday

 

 

 

Basically just like a school but with bigger budgets - but bigger systems

[mavhc]

Nothing is ever From Scratch though, it has to integrate with 100 existing systems, so it uses a common file format and existing data transfer systems, which, by definition, are old fashioned.

 

Also it has to work ASAP, so the perfectly designed system has to wait until Version 2.

 

See for example: x86 (and x64), IP protocol, Javascript

 

Also see that all the version 2s of those things failed.

[mikeprice]

Just found this

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/coronavirus-missing-tests-microsoft-excel-matt-hancock-b859322.html

 

totally inaccurate -

quote

The version of Microsoft Excel used – known as XLS – was superseded way back in 2007, but was still being deployed by Public Health England’s systems.

unquote

 

that is NOT the version of Excel - the whole article seems to thing that XLS and XLSX are software - not file types

 

and they totally confuse this with the version of Software that is being deployed

 

Does anyone know what the actual version of Excel is that public heath England are deploying??

I doubt it is pre 2007 - but I could be wrong

 

 

and this mis represents the actual problem - it makes it sound as is the problem is that the IT dept. are carp for deploying out of date (by > 13 years) software and forcing user to use it

Whereas the actual problem isdown to how the system was designed and put together

 

which is a totally different area

 

and a very familiar situation

[jthompson]

I thought the Independent had gone bust?!

[mikeprice]

anyone got Dido Harding's email address - she may need this

 

https://www.groupon.co.uk/deals/new-skills-academy-83?p=10&nlp=&CID=UK&uu=3dad3a75-a32e-4db3-aa9c-2df0f18d65e0&tx=0&utm_source=channel_occasions_im&utm_medium=email&sid=ada69172-da2c-4dd5-872b-46ee06460eef_0_20201007_treatment4&t_division=chester&date=20200710&sender=rm&s=body&c=image&d=deal-page

 

 

sorry

 

 

sometimes you just have to

[Andrew_C]

anyone got Dido Harding's email address - she may need this

 

Nah; she's a friend* of Bozo, she's fire-proof.

 

* Friend or 'friend'? I have no idea, but the above is accurate.

[caffrey]

anyone got Dido Harding's email address - she may need this

 

https://www.groupon.co.uk/deals/new-skills-academy-83?p=10&nlp=&CID=UK&uu=3dad3a75-a32e-4db3-aa9c-2df0f18d65e0&tx=0&utm_source=channel_occasions_im&utm_medium=email&sid=ada69172-da2c-4dd5-872b-46ee06460eef_0_20201007_treatment4&t_division=chester&date=20200710&sender=rm&s=body&c=image&d=deal-page

 

 

sorry

 

 

sometimes you just have to

 

I like the fact it's selling fast

[jmak]

And this is why I prefer the NHS app to any of the other contact gathering methods:

 

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/contact-tracing-data-sold-on-coronavirus-141855189.html

 

(Apologies for the Yahoo link - the original story is in the Times behind a paywall.)

[mavhc]

That article is completely wrong.

 

They've also provided no evidence for their claims

[paulkerton]

That article is completely wrong.

 

They've also provided no evidence for their claims

That the article doesn't provide hard evidence doesn't make it wrong. Plenty of companies will try to take advantage in terms and conditions.

 

The original Times article actually states that it's a specific pub chain in London (without naming the chain)

[mavhc]

So 1 pub chain has their own QR app that takes details, but that's nothing to do with the NHS app that uses QR codes to take details.

 

The article fails to point that out, so the authors are either evil or stupid, or both.

[jthompson]

So if a pub chain has their own app/QR scheme, that presumably requires the customers to install said app and either grant it various permissions, populate it with personal details and/or link it with a Facebook login.

 

So you'll already be giving most of the data away before you've even scanned any of their codes.

[jmak]

So 1 pub chain has their own QR app that takes details, but that's nothing to do with the NHS app that uses QR codes to take details.

 

The article fails to point that out, so the authors are either evil or stupid, or both.

I obviously wasn't clear enough in my original post. I was trying to make the point that the NHS app is much BETTER from a privacy point of view at least.

So if a pub chain has their own app/QR scheme, that presumably requires the customers to install said app and either grant it various permissions, populate it with personal details and/or link it with a Facebook login.

 

So you'll already be giving most of the data away before you've even scanned any of their codes.

All of the ones I've used just use the QR code to direct you to a web form. You just fill in your details and pass them on. No app to install or sign into.

 

Presumably by pressing submit, you agree to whatever terms and conditions they haven't shown you and you just trust them to do the honourable thing...

 

Until the NHS app was launched as an alternative, your only other option was not to go into the venue.

[hardtailstar]

Went to KFC last night and they wouldn't let us in the building until the app was scanned by everyone with us.

 

Never had that issue in any place before.

[paulkerton]

The article fails to point that out, so the authors are either evil or stupid, or both.

The article doesn't conflate the two, so I'd suggest its your reading comprehension.

[mavhc]

The article doesn't conflate the two, so I'd suggest its your reading comprehension.

 

It doesn't mention the NHS app at all, or why it's better.

 

It says QR codes = bad.

 

Thus normal humans will see a QR code and think scanning it to register they were there is bad.

 

My point is proven as this post is in the NHS app thread, not the other thread.

[jmak]

I posted it here and it was entirely deliberate. I started with "this is why I prefer the NHS app".

 

I put it in this thread as there'd been discussion above about the benefits of the NHS app and data privacy concerns about sharing your details with individual venues, while other participants were resistant to using the NHS app.

[jthompson]

All of the ones I've used just use the QR code to direct you to a web form. You just fill in your details and pass them on. No app to install or sign into.

 

Ah okay. That makes more sense!

[mavhc]

I posted it here and it was entirely deliberate. I started with "this is why I prefer the NHS app".

 

I put it in this thread as there'd been discussion above about the benefits of the NHS app and data privacy concerns about sharing your details with individual venues, while other participants were resistant to using the NHS app.

 

Indeed, but pick a random non IT person to read that article, and then ask them if they're going to scan a QR code with the NHS app

[sonofsanta]

So, uh

 

When you have the app installed, Android regularly pops up a notification saying "hey I'm still scanning! Do you want to see the scanning I've done?" and it's just a list of timestamps, who cares, that's useless to me. So now I'm in the habit of swiping those notifications away.

 

But this morning as I swiped it away my eyes just caught a fragment of text that was not the usual, and may well have been something along the lines of "you've been near a case". But now the notification has gone--because the phone has trained me to swipe away those notifications as irrelevant information, brilliant design, well done--I'm buggered if I can find anything in Android or the NHS app telling me about it.

 

I presume the app would be blaring big alarms at me if it needed me to self-isolate? It's doing nothing out the normal whatsoever

[Norphy]

I got a notification on the iOS app this morning saying that the risk level in the area has changed. I'm nowhere near Lincolnshire but possibly that's what you got as well?

[caffrey]

So, uh

 

When you have the app installed, Android regularly pops up a notification saying "hey I'm still scanning! Do you want to see the scanning I've done?" and it's just a list of timestamps, who cares, that's useless to me. So now I'm in the habit of swiping those notifications away.

 

But this morning as I swiped it away my eyes just caught a fragment of text that was not the usual, and may well have been something along the lines of "you've been near a case". But now the notification has gone--because the phone has trained me to swipe away those notifications as irrelevant information, brilliant design, well done--I'm buggered if I can find anything in Android or the NHS app telling me about it.

 

I presume the app would be blaring big alarms at me if it needed me to self-isolate? It's doing nothing out the normal whatsoever

 

Tried under settings \ google \ covid 19 exposure notifications \ exposure checks ?

[ultima170387]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-54522438

 

It could have been this, I had one at the weekend that 'disappeared'

[sonofsanta]

Tried under settings \ google \ covid 19 exposure notifications \ exposure checks ?

 

 

Yup--that's just the list of timestamps for when the NHS app has made a request to the Android service.

 

....and ahahahahaa, just tapped into one of the timestamps randomly and it says "number of matches: 1". Buggrit. Guess I better talk to the Head's PA about what to do. Could really do without being away from the office for a fortnight right now!

 

EDIT: hang on a minute tho: NHS Covid app updated to 'fix' phantom messages

 

The NHS Covid-19 app has been updated to fix an issue with confusing alerts that pop up suggesting exposure to the virus and then disappear.

 

...

 

Typical messages read: "Possible Covid-19 exposure. Someone you were near reported having Covid-19. Exposure date, duration and signal strength have been saved."

 

When users click on the notifications they disappear, and when they open the app, there is nothing to be seen and no new advice.

 

...

 

It added that the only messages that matter are the ones inside the app, particularly those advising people that they have been in contact with someone infected with coronavirus and need to self-isolate.

 

 

 

That sounds exactly like that I caught of the message, and describes the behaviour I'm seeing since, so I guess panic over for now.

 

EDIT2: that'd be the one, @ultima170387! Got to love a good old-fashioned cross-posting. Glad I'm not the only one to have seen it on my phone. Bugger me, what a way to inspire confidence in your solution.

Edited October 14, 2020 by sonofsanta

[jthompson]

You might find the Android notifications log useful if you want to see what you've just dismissed. Go to add a widget, choose the Settings widget and then select Notification Log from the list.