Schools in UK are picking O365 over the superior GSuite - what about in the US

[maark]

I would much prefer Gsuite but we are a long way down 365 route and don't really want to run both.

I find 365 so much harder to use and administer.

Teams is a mess compared to google classroom.

[MrWu]

I also have O365 and Google Classroom together (Google classroom was setup and went live by teaching staff separately.. I had a GSuite account setup years ago dormant and they utilised it, seems a good setup to replace Frog...

[dmj]

Google Apps (as it was) was clearly better 5 years ago, but O365 has caught up while G-Suite has remained stagnant.

 

I'm not quite sure where it has improved. I regularly get send MSOffice documents that I cannot edit in O365 because it is missing some function or another (lack of symbols, superscript issues etc). I normally can edit these Office documents fine in Gsuite - but not in Office!

If it has improved it's only becasue started from such a low base. Gsuite still wins for me on functionality.

[Ditto]

I find 365 so much harder to use and administer.

 

This matches my experience. Perhaps some training would help, but all my G Suite Admin and Suite skills have been self taught.

 

Teams is a mess compared to google classroom.

Again I agree, but more importantly, the feedback is from teachers who started using Google Classroom - it's almost universally positive and they seem to pick it up quickly. I've yet to see a functioning MS teams environment, but I guess it's fair to say I'm working on a small sample. Interesting, rather than teams, I have seen Sharepoint set up in a way that perhaps is an alternative to some of G Suite and Google Classroom, but the initial setup is challenging, but critical to success. Using a third party to set this up, someone like SalamanderSoft, with there vast experience is a worthwhile investment I believe.

[Ditto]

Not wishing the hijack the thread but....Apple have been working in education long before MS or Google even really existed...

How Steve Jobs Brought the Apple II to the Classroom

Definitely not a hijack - I invited comments on Apple from the outset. But, how does it compare with G Suite and MS offerings today?

[Ditto]

I’ve been told that our area is 80% Google / Chromebook.

This is something I've picked up from US/International forums. I haven't been able to get clear figures for the UK, but it's nowhere near this figure. What I haven't been able to do is come to any conclusion why this would be.

 

I know there are budget models and deals, but I’ve spent an average of $700 on windows laptops and $200 on Chromebooks per device.

Would you say the devices are functionally equivalent? The last school I was at it was more £250-300 pounds for a Chromebook versus £350-450 for a laptop.

[Michael]

I think the real drive for O365 over G Suite, is that MS Exchange is still much better than Gmail. It also integrates better with AD, which you'd expect given both are made by Microsoft.

 

Google do have the upper hand with the likes of Google File Stream/Shared Drives over OneDrive/SharePoint, so you can use both (O365 > G Suite) as a few have already stated.

[Primus]

I think the real drive for O365 over G Suite, is that MS Exchange is still much better than Gmail. It also integrates better with AD, which you'd expect given both are made by Microsoft.

 

Google do have the upper hand with the likes of Google File Stream/Shared Drives over OneDrive/SharePoint, so you can use both (O365 > G Suite) as a few have already stated.

 

As someone who administrates both (don't ask!) can you explain why you think Exchange is better than GMail and what integration with AD you use that G Suite doesn't have?

 

I'm genuinely curious - we recently took over a school that uses O365 and I have to say I'm not a fan at all.

[ADMaster]

Would you say the devices are functionally equivalent? The last school I was at it was more £250-300 pounds for a Chromebook versus £350-450 for a laptop.

 

I'd guess that difference comes down to the specs we are looking at.

For PCs I target i5 8GB at a minimum. I think I target mid-range for both classes of device. I don't want something so cheap it doesn’t last, but the high end stuff is overkill for the job.

 

For the average user, they are functionally the same. However I have windows in places that need the Adobe suite / auto desk, robotics programming etc. Staff always had it for Office, whiteboard software and grade book.

 

The gradebook software is now web based, so a lot of staff and students could work from a Chromebook without issue.

[Michael]

As someone who administrates both (don't ask!) can you explain why you think Exchange is better than GMail and what integration with AD you use that G Suite doesn't have?

 

I'm genuinely curious - we recently took over a school that uses O365 and I have to say I'm not a fan at all.

 

Likewise I manage both - the user interface of Outlook is stronger/more manageable and the back end with Powershell is also much better. Azure AD connect is more reliable and also offers users true SSO as an option.

 

As a few examples -

 

- Trying to export a GMail account is an absolute mess - PSTs do everything

- Forwarding emails from one mailbox to the other is far more complicated than it should be

- And why do Google call sub-Inboxes 'Labels'!?

 

I also think it's an historical thing, as Microsoft Exchange has been around a long time and is widely adopted by business, as well as Education.

[Primus]

Likewise I manage both - the user interface of Outlook is stronger/more manageable and the back end with Powershell is also much better. Azure AD connect is more reliable and also offers users true SSO as an option.

 

As a few examples -

 

- Trying to export a GMail account is an absolute mess - PSTs do everything

- Forwarding emails from one mailbox to the other is far more complicated than it should be

- And why do Google call sub-Inboxes 'Labels'!?

 

I also think it's an historical thing, as Microsoft Exchange has been around a long time and is widely adopted by business, as well as Education.

 

Thanks for the later examples, I think saying things like the UI is stronger/more manageable is very much down to preference without specific examples.

 

GAM is the Google equivalent for PowerShell and is very powerful.

 

We've had no issues with password sync etc. and true SSO is also part of the G Suite offer.

 

- PSTs - that great bastion of tech with no known issues, corruption etc?

- How is forwarding emails more complicated than it needs to be?

- Google tried to make email more friendly - labels are part of that and have been pretty much since Gmail was launched (if not exactly from launch)

[Michael]

You're right though, part of it is preference, but also listening to feedback from end users.

 

- Anything is susceptible to corruption, I wouldn't necessarily single out PSTs. The point is Google don't have their own format which exports everything in one go.

- Try it - with Google you have to confirm the forwarding destination, plus it also appears to treat aliases differently.

- I agree they tried and I use GMail at home, just not in the Enterprise.

[Arthur]

And why do Google call sub-Inboxes 'Labels'!?

Labels = tags. @Primus is correct. They have been there since Gmail launched.

 

The main advantage to labels is that an email can be assigned multiple different labels and therefore appear in multiple "folders" without duplicating the message itself.

 

Outlook has categories, but these aren't quite the same.

 

Re: GAM. There's a much nicer PowerShell equivalent called PSGSuite.

Edited September 23, 2019 by Arthur

[Primus]

You're right though, part of it is preference, but also listening to feedback from end users.

 

- Anything is susceptible to corruption, I wouldn't necessarily single out PSTs. The point is Google don't have their own format which exports everything in one go.

- Try it - with Google you have to confirm the forwarding destination, plus it also appears to treat aliases differently.

- I agree they tried and I use GMail at home, just not in the Enterprise.

 

They do have their own format for exporting a mailbox???

 

Confirming the forwarding destination makes perfect sense to me?

 

How many end users have used both products so as to give an informed set of feedback?

[jcs808]

We chose Google over MS because of Google Classroom. It facilitates one-to-one communication or class wide collaborative work. Submitting and re-submitting (once it's been marked) of assignments without the need to directly email the teacher. If you use it correctly it can also tick the peer assessment box too. Classroom integrates great into each student calendar and (if you enable it) their email. I do wish that the parental engagement part was a bit easier to manage though.

 

I will say that the 3 core MS Office apps are more sophisticated than the Google offerings but they are constantly developing and are more than fine for 95% of what we do as a school.

[chazzy2501]

one reason to use o365 is the gargantuan storage they give a school!

 

[Arthur]

one reason to use o365 is the gargantuan storage they give a school!

G Suite for Education gives you 1 Exabyte (1,000 Petabytes)!

 

www.edugeek.net/forums/cloud-services/181218-google-drive-file-stream-4.html#post1579476

[free780]

For those using both. How do you do it? Administrating Office 365 takes a lot of time. I guess looking after Gsuite and Office 365 is your user count is 500 may be easier than 11000 users.

[dmj]

Likewise I manage both - the user interface of Outlook is stronger/more manageable and the back end with Powershell is also much better. Azure AD connect is more reliable and also offers users true SSO as an option.

 

 

There are also some significant downsides with exchange, for example the spam filtering is poor. Your left with the options of spending £££ on mimecast et al or forwarding the email to Google to use the postini for free just to send the filtered email back to exchange !

[dmj]

The point is Google don't have their own format which exports everything in one go.

.

 

Not only that but Google has a single place to export ALL data, not just email: takeout.google.com

Email is exported in the MBOX format - it's not google's own format and is very widely used.

 

Mbox is an open standard: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mbox

[MartinT]

I rolled out AD FS, O365, Teams, Forms, OneNote etc. over the summer. We're still training and I've left access to Google Classroom for those who want it. Take-up of Teams has been amazing with almost 200 Teams now created. Those who were using Google Classroom, Firefly or the outdated Smart Notes have moved over to the Microsoft tools. Joined up integration is one of the well-liked characteristics of the Microsoft offering, single sign-on, as well as almost infinite storage (ok, 14PB) and access to virtually everything from home or elsewhere.

 

I have given Firefly notice as I cannot justify £6800 annually when the £4500 for Microsoft does everything it does plus a lot more. We will also not pay the outrageous sum Smart wanted for the software update to the latest version. Teachers are already teaching using OneNote.

[Wubbalubbadub]

For me it was deciding what people would use when leaving school. Colleges seem to use Office 365, and the workplace tend to have office etc.

 

I agree that some places are moving to google. But its certainly not as big as Microsoft / Office.

[TechMonkey]

There are also some significant downsides with exchange, for example the spam filtering is poor. Your left with the options of spending £££ on mimecast et al or forwarding the email to Google to use the postini for free just to send the filtered email back to exchange !

 

You don't have to spend £££. From what I have seen the Spam filtering is fine, you just have to put the work in. If you want to off load that you can pay other services, including an MS option that looks very comprehensive.

[TwistedHelixis]

My post is a response to OP.

 

Lots of the schools around me are G Suite Schools including the colleges.

 

For each of the schools I look after I setup both Office 365 & G Suite and got SLT to use both for a few months. All of those schools picked G Suite over Office 365.

 

I have spoken to schools where the LA look after their IT and they were not given a choice, they had to use Office 365.

[Ditto]

My post is a response to OP.

Lots of the schools around me are G Suite Schools including the colleges.

For each of the schools I look after I setup both Office 365 & G Suite and got SLT to use both for a few months. All of those schools picked G Suite over Office 365.

I have spoken to schools where the LA look after their IT and they were not given a choice, they had to use Office 365.

Out of interest, roughly what area of the UK are you in? I do wonder if schools that are still LA schools suffer from the same syndrome that makes them stay with SIMS. What is interesting with your experience is how it contrasts with @MartinT where MS Teams seems to win favour. Perhaps it's too early to judge in his case, but I wonder if it's a case of how well a MS implementation is completed that is key, but that's probably true with whatever solution is selected.