FAO: Schools in Peterborough using 'safecom' with DANWOOD

[localzuk]

On our copier contract at my last school, we paid 0.33p per page b&w and 3.6p colour. You're being ripped off with prices like that!

[Duds]

Also i'd be intrested to know other organisations costs per sheet, we are charged 5p for black and white and 21p for colour which seems very high

 

Jesus!! imo you're being ripped off in a big way.

[Whoarya]

Hi Hollylucy

 

There is a very simple way to get out of this type of agreement & its easier than you might think with no penalties too.

 

Honesty integity decency & fairplay wins in the end

 

Regards

 

Whoarya

[Whoarya]

Very interesting indeed lordasb & it is always the best way to see the truth behind the "pitch" & its a challenge working out What's Right for sure

[NAPPS]

Also i'd be intrested to know other organisations costs per sheet, we are charged 5p for black and white and 21p for colour which seems very high

 

I can't be sure but I would bet a pound you are looking at the decimal point wrongly and actually being charged half a penny 0.05p for mono and 2.1p which may look like 0.21p on the invoice. Check the copies multipied by the cpc and you will be able to work out exactly what you are paying.

[Oaktech]

ok, where do I start.

 

BE VERY CAREFULL WITH DANWOOD. In the beginning they good, then comes the rising quarterly bills & they insist they still saving you money.

 

Check your contract through. Make sure its an OGC contract, then your protected. If your on their EVERGREEN contract your screwed. Thats a never ending contract that you sign every quarter that resets your time limit on the contract...so it becomes a never enjding contract.

 

I can give you so much more details etc... Just ask...

 

In a sense, id say stay away if you can, but sounds like you already signed up!!

 

^^ what he said.

[SSM]

Sorry to drag this thread up but I am looking for any advice that people can provide on Danwood.

 

We are a company and the the way I found this site was typing in "Danwood bad" (was going to add experience) in to google. In 2009 we bought two printers off Danwood and paid upfront. Through the negotations the sales person nor any written proposal mentioned anything about signing up to a 5 year agreement. What we asked for is to buy two machines and then have the toners and service/repair support and pay on a cost per page basis.

 

The contract we signed has in the small print two clauses. Clause 5.3 mentions that after 1 year they can put the unit price we pay up by up to 15% per year. However this same clause mentions that it excludes clause 5.4 which states that they can increase the price per unit due to an factors beyond their control and provide no limits here. So as the contract stands they can literally put the price up to whatever they want. Sure enough after one year the price increased just over 15% and now again in the 3rd year another 15.xx% increase has gone on. In total both increases equate to a 32% increase in two years.

 

When queried I was told by Danwood that clause 5.4 was the reason. However, we have contacted another company that does exactly what Danwood does and they would be able to offer the exact same service that Danwood are providing but at approximately half the cost. Therefore I think this clearly demonstrates that Danwood are exploiting clause 5.4.

 

Unwittingly as one of our Directors signed the contract, the tiny small print was overlooked and somehow we have been signed on to a 5 years contract yet only parts and labour for 3 years when we actually own the machines outright and just wanted to have toners and support on a print per copy basis contract.

 

Any advice would be appreciated particularly on how we can get out of this unfair contract situation?

 

Many thanks in advance.

[Duds]

The first rule of copier and printer contracts is, Do not sign a contract with Danwood.

The second rule is DO NOT SIGN A CONTRACT WITH DANWOOD!

 

Sorry, had to get that one in.

 

Without seeing the contract it's really hard to say.

 

However, if it's just an Equipment Service Agreement then you should only need to give 30 days notice to get out of it.

 

Danwood being Danwood though, they probably have a clause in there somewhere so that this isn't so easy.

 

If you can't get out of it and they still insist on billing you on a cost per print basis then, if they are a few years old, I would get new printers and just store the two under contract. The theory being that if they are not in use, you can't be billed cost per print. One thing to be careful of is Danwood's minimal billing which may mean that, even if not in use, you have to pay them a minimum of prints.

[SSM]

The first rule of copier and printer contracts is, Do not sign a contract with Danwood.

The second rule is DO NOT SIGN A CONTRACT WITH DANWOOD!

 

Sorry, had to get that one in.

 

Without seeing the contract it's really hard to say.

 

However, if it's just an Equipment Service Agreement then you should only need to give 30 days notice to get out of it.

 

Danwood being Danwood though, they probably have a clause in there somewhere so that this isn't so easy.

 

If you can't get out of it and they still insist on billing you on a cost per print basis then, if they are a few years old, I would get new printers and just store the two under contract. The theory being that if they are not in use, you can't be billed cost per print. One thing to be careful of is Danwood's minimal billing which may mean that, even if not in use, you have to pay them a minimum of prints.

 

It is an Equipment Service Agreement but it says it lasts 60 months from November 2009!!

 

The printers we bought were expesnive (costing over 10K in total for the two) so we can't put them to one side and not use them.

 

I have scanned the t&c's and uploaded them as an image.

Edited April 19, 2012 by SSM

[SNAssessor]

Hi There

 

I just wondered, I'm assuming you found yourself bound by an "evergreen" contract with Danwood? Did you have any success negotiating out of it?

[SNAssessor]

Hi There

 

Just wondering, did you find yourself bound by a Danwood EVERGREEN contract - have you actually managed to get out of it?

[SNAssessor]

I'm also looking to find anyone that got out of one of these contracts?

 

Has anyone successfully avoided the "significant financial penalty" which this appears to entail?

 

Your help and opinions would be much appreciatted?

[Chris-Mark]

Hi everyone

I would also like to know if anyone got out of a danwood contract and avoided financial penalties.

In 2011 i signed with danwood because as explained by the salesman was cost effective so I signed a blank contract with only my and company details filled in the salesman filled in the blanks in his office. I never got a copy of this until i complained that what was agreed was not what I am paying for.

Danwood don't want to know their argument is I signed the contact for 5 years so tough.

The black and white copies are costing 10.332 pence and colour 14.606 pence.

please help

[Steve21]

Hi everyone

I would also like to know if anyone got out of a danwood contract and avoided financial penalties.

In 2011 i signed with danwood because as explained by the salesman was cost effective so I signed a blank contract with only my and company details filled in the salesman filled in the blanks in his office. I never got a copy of this until i complained that what was agreed was not what I am paying for.

Danwood don't want to know their argument is I signed the contact for 5 years so tough.

The black and white copies are costing 10.332 pence and colour 14.606 pence.

please help

 

What were you expecting to get from them? I mean in the sense of you're saying it's 5 year contact, at X pence. But did you expect 5 years? Did you expect less price per print etc?

 

Steve

[penfold_99]

It is an Equipment Service Agreement but it says it lasts 60 months from November 2009!!

 

The printers we bought were expesnive (costing over 10K in total for the two) so we can't put them to one side and not use them.

 

I have scanned the t&c's and uploaded them as an image.[ATTACH=CONFIG]13679[/ATTACH]

 

Clause 4.10 could imply that they want you to break the law by allowing them access to someone else's premises, if they are storing the toners on your behalf and they refuse you access.

[Printerman]

Hello Zahraauk

 

Unless you changed the small print before signing, you are in fact, tied to Danwood for 5 years, not 3. Your lease may be for three years but the service contract clause says clearly, in 1:1 "Initial Term means a period of 60 months from Commencement of this Agreement"

 

This is repeated again in clause 2 and then in clause 6.1 "This Agreement can be terminated by You 60 months after the Installation Date or on any subsequent anniversary of that date if You have given at least 90 days prior notice in writing to Us."

 

Even if you bought the machines outright, Danwood still have a financial hold over you for 5 years! Amazingly, even if you stop using the hardware, they can still charge you for prints you would have used, clause 7.1.3 states this clearly.

 

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

[Printerman]

I'm also looking to find anyone that got out of one of these contracts?

 

Has anyone successfully avoided the "significant financial penalty" which this appears to entail?

 

Your help and opinions would be much appreciatted?

 

Hi SNAssessor

 

I have learned that this contract has not been called Evergreen for roughly 4 years, which explains its disappearance. In its latest guise, it is called Managed Print Services or MPS contract. There are so many terms and conditions that the one I saw was printed on both sides of a piece of A2 paper then folded into 4!

 

It is a very complicated contract that is presented in a very clever way; only their most experienced salespeople are allowed to use it. This contract is immensely profitable for this supplier but seems to bring misery to so many customers when they realise their mistake years later, but then it is too late.

 

You are not alone; there are quite a few large “household name” organisations that have been unwittingly tied up with this contract. You have not heard about them because generally they are highly embarrassed about the situation and do not want to be perceived as being foolish by their shareholders or the public at large.

 

This MPS contract is a bit like them helping you to “max out” your credit card every month and then helpfully they also increase your credit limit to facilitate your new spending. All goes along happily for years until one day the bank comes to take your house away!

 

Even if you completely stop “spending” and wisely cut up “the card”, you are stuck with them, their service, their escalating bills, and your old equipment for another FIVE years! There is normally only one option, "bite the bullet" and stop the contract by electing for the fixed 5 year term to start; then do not change anything else with this company.

 

And yes this contract is legal and has been tested in English courts. Whether it is moral is a totally different question of course!

 

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news!

[Sinistapenguin]

Hi All - I too am looking to see if anyone has any experience of getting out of one of these contracts? We signed a contract a long time ago and have just now - 6 years later been told that it never entered the 'fixed period' - so our 5 year contract, already 6 years old, still has 5 years to run. It gets a lot more complex, but I also have e-mails confirming that our contract should have ended. However it seems what the Salesperson told me isn't what the contract states. Any help gratefully received. Cheers Sinista

[dankearn]

Hi There, I am new to this thread, having a read through some of the issues people have been facing with DW. I used to work for them about 3 years ago, I would be happy to help where I can for things to look out for, Volume agreement, Lease and Service and MPS/Evergreen contracts.

[dankearn]

Also i'd be intrested to know other organisations costs per sheet, we are charged 5p for black and white and 21p for colour which seems very high

Hi there, It may be that you are on a volume plan, (designed for business with high volumes of print) Basically you pay the capital cost of the kit and the service cost as one quarterly payment, not designed for low volume environments.dankearn

[rigmu]

Guess your part of the cull Sue,this is a genuine offer of sympathy,lol

[rigmu]

they will take any volume,but bear in mind your annual increase is applied to service and capital on a volume plan,dodgy dealings your not told about i guess,u normally expect or can accomodate a service increase,but usually capital cost,as per a lease,is fixed for term of contract

[rigmu]

Hi All - I too am looking to see if anyone has any experience of getting out of one of these contracts? We signed a contract a long time ago and have just now - 6 years later been told that it never entered the 'fixed period' - so our 5 year contract, already 6 years old, still has 5 years to run. It gets a lot more complex, but I also have e-mails confirming that our contract should have ended. However it seems what the Salesperson told me isn't what the contract states. Any help gratefully received. Cheers Sinista

 

Hi Sinista,

the man that allegedly had the evergreen idea,try contact him now.

 

[h=2]REPLY FROM DANWOOD, DIRECTOR OF GROUP FINANCE[/h]

Ladies and Gentlemen, I have read with interest the replies to Ben Stanton regarding the use of Safecom with Danwood and was concerned to learn of the problems that have been aired with regard to various types of contract that are in use. For the avoidance of doubt I would like to clarify the situation to allay members' fears. Danwood use a variety of different contracts through Danwood Group Finance.

1. Rental - the rental contract for schools normally goes through the OGC contract, is completely transparent, service is charged separately, again on OGC pricing, it is easy to register with OGC and benchmark all the manufacturers, suppliers, products and pricing.

2. Total volume plan - this contract combines the rental and service cost and by adding the two quarterly amounts together and dividing by the volume, creates a cost per page. The advantage of this contract is that the volume dictates the payment made each quarter, and if the machine is over-used, the contract will end early, with no financial liability to the school.

3. Evergreen - this is a complicated contract and was designed in essence as a large, revolving corporate credit card. The fixed payment kicks in when the technology refresh period has been completed and pays down the capital outstanding. At any time during the fixed period, the contract can be opened up to allow new equipment to flow into the contract, either additional machines or machine changes. The contract is designed to keep payments within a budget that the school is comfortable with. Because the Evergreen contract is complicated, the decision was made two years ago to withdraw it from the market place for schools

 

I note that there are queries over the terms of the Evergeen contract and would be pleased to supply any of the members who have the contract, with terms and conditions relating to their contract and to visit them and explain to them in detail so that they understand the contract and can either use it to their benefit or change to a fixed rental plus service should they wish to do so.

 

My contact details are as follows:

Gary Elms, Director of Danwood Group Finance

gary. elms @DanWood.co.uk (01522 8344565)