FAO: Schools in Peterborough using 'safecom' with DANWOOD

[Ben_Stanton]

We currently use Danwood for our photocopying needs etc and they seem very good. Just had a guy in as I am thinking about ditching these stupid consumable hungry Oki's in favour of a decent HP fleet.

 

The rough figures seem reasonable and i'll get a confirmed price once the audit has completed. I just wanted your comments on them as a company providing printer support and if you think you made the right step? Does it actually work out more cost and waste effective? Anybody using the 'Authentication' at the printer - how does that work in a class environment?

 

Thanks in advance guys...

 

Ben

[Joedetic]

If this is the hp multifunction jobbies with the safecom pull print system....make sure you get a decent price for your consumables etc.

 

My university recently ditched the existing printing system for the new safecom hp multifunction things.

 

The problem is they're WAY overpricing everything. It's a very nice system indeed with the pull print stuff. Type in your username and a pin for the system and select prints etc.

 

Sorry if that's not much help but as an end user the main gripe is just the costing of stuff has to be right and that's it.

[Ben_Stanton]

Thanks Joe, that is the kind of thing i'm looking for.

 

Although, this particular #package' would include consumables. So, we pay a yearly/quartely figure which includes everything basically. 4 hour response to breakdown, all consumables, upgrades etc etc.

 

What if you have a room of 20 kids that all need to print by end of lesson? They all have to indivdually go type in their details?

[Joedetic]

Yes...they would all have to go and type in their user name and pin number.

 

The way around this would be to get them all to drop them into a network share and then have the teacher print them or use net support school to collect the work to the tutor machine and print it or something.

 

This way only one username and password would been to be put in but then you're going to be printing from the teacher's account as opposed to the student's account.

[sLiDeR]

ok, where do I start.

 

BE VERY CAREFULL WITH DANWOOD. In the beginning they good, then comes the rising quarterly bills & they insist they still saving you money.

 

Check your contract through. Make sure its an OGC contract, then your protected. If your on their EVERGREEN contract your screwed. Thats a never ending contract that you sign every quarter that resets your time limit on the contract...so it becomes a never enjding contract.

 

I can give you so much more details etc... Just ask...

 

In a sense, id say stay away if you can, but sounds like you already signed up!!

[john]

Years ago I used to have a Danwood setup at the local college and they were ok but they were just never quite as good as they could have been. They moved from them and it was the best move ever.

[Ben_Stanton]

Ok guys, thank you for your comments. I'll raise them with the right people. We're only signed up to their photocopying contract, which has worked out effecient so far.

 

Thanks again

 

Ben

[tech_guy]

Yeah, watch out for Evergreen or you'll get screwed.

[SOSAGES]

Hello,

 

about the auth user at copier solution.

I think its using safecom (a danish product) i think its the old guys from "follow me" and now a xerox product i think you only get the embedded option with the HP copiers (one of the few products to be able to work with HP's)

I know they are at a few uni's around the country. I have nothing bad to say about HP or the solution apart from maybe its expensive but then i have no idea how much they are charging

i also sent you a PM with some more info.

[sLiDeR]

Yeah, watch out for Evergreen or you'll get screwed.

 

We just legally got ourselves out of the Evergreen onto a fixed 5 year term. After that we will leave them for defo.....if im around to see it.

 

I cant stress enough to stay well away from Danwood.....like over the hills & across the mountains away!!

[WaveyDavey]

does anyone have a copy of the evergreen contract terms and conditions?

would help a lot

thanks

[Hollylucy]

I agree with tech guy and slider - avoid Danwood and particularly their Evergreen or any Danwood Print Management Agreement - like the plague!! At the start they appear like a friendly and helpful company, determined to help you reduce your costs and streamline your copying & printing - but once they have got you trapped in their Evergreen Contract - you will be paying off your liability for the rest of your life!!

 

We were attracted to them, after completing a Print Audit, and they initially presented us with a less expensive and much more flexible total print management agreement. We are now paying hugely increased monthly/quarterly sums - and we have just discovered that the fixed term of the agreement is still outstanding!!! (another full 5 years)! Having requested a contract termination figure we have been advised that it will be 21 x our current quarterly payment!!!

 

Can anyone help us get out this mess - can anyone offer us suitable advice? Has anyone out there been successful in escaping their contract without incurring a horrific financial penalty?

[Podman1]

This Evergreen contract pops up frequently.

What are the ways of ending one of these agreements?

And does any body have the Ts and Cs for one of these contracts?

I know someone who is currently trying and cannot get Danwood to come up with original paperwork they keep putting off which keeps extending the period.

They dont even know when the contract will end.

 

[Gatt]

I know someone who is currently trying and cannot get Danwood to come up with original paperwork they keep putting off which keeps extending the period.

They dont even know when the contract will end.

 

 

 

Surely that would be grounds for you to terminate the contract?

[Podman1]

Not that simple when the beancounters cant find the original signed contract, as everyone knows the small print is always on the back or you need a microscope and a law degree to decipher it..

Thanks

 

[Printerman]

Good morning gents

 

I now have quite extensive information that may help you to make wise decisions regarding Danwood.

 

Having recently spoken to a number of Danwood employees and had sight of their contracts. I suggest that their contracts are not to be taken lightly. There are number of clauses that make my hair curl!

 

For the first year you get IT support included, thereafter they charge you £75 per quarter per unit, just because it can potentially print or scan. This is really annoying as there really is no benefit to us at all. Service and parts support is already paid for in the per page cost!

 

Watch out for how many years you get parts included for, even if your contract says "parts included" that is only for ONE Year, then you get the bills as the machine actually starts to need parts! They can increase their cost per page by only a modest 10% but if they can prove that their costs have gone up, there is NO LIMIT to the increase or how often! There are many additional provisions that the salesman can add to alleviate some of these problems.

 

The problem I have is unless you have a highly ethical salesman, and yes they do exist, and he knows all the antidotes to the contract, I am afraid that you are stuffed! The Danwood service & or evergreen contract is very good....for Danwood.

 

I would personally advise avoiding it and getting a standard lease and separate service contract from another OGC supplier. It may appear that you are paying slightly more initially but you will definitely save more than money in the long run!

[DanW]

ok, where do I start.

 

BE VERY CAREFULL WITH DANWOOD. In the beginning they good, then comes the rising quarterly bills & they insist they still saving you money.

 

Check your contract through. Make sure its an OGC contract, then your protected. If your on their EVERGREEN contract your screwed. Thats a never ending contract that you sign every quarter that resets your time limit on the contract...so it becomes a never enjding contract.

 

I can give you so much more details etc... Just ask...

 

In a sense, id say stay away if you can, but sounds like you already signed up!!

 

Years ago I used to have a Danwood setup at the local college and they were ok but they were just never quite as good as they could have been. They moved from them and it was the best move ever.

 

Good morning gents

 

I now have quite extensive information that may help you to make wise decisions regarding Danwood.

 

Having recently spoken to a number of Danwood employees and had sight of their contracts. I suggest that their contracts are not to be taken lightly. There are number of clauses that make my hair curl!

 

For the first year you get IT support included, thereafter they charge you £75 per quarter per unit, just because it can potentially print or scan. This is really annoying as there really is no benefit to us at all. Service and parts support is already paid for in the per page cost!

 

Watch out for how many years you get parts included for, even if your contract says "parts included" that is only for ONE Year, then you get the bills as the machine actually starts to need parts! They can increase their cost per page by only a modest 10% but if they can prove that their costs have gone up, there is NO LIMIT to the increase or how often! There are many additional provisions that the salesman can add to alleviate some of these problems.

 

The problem I have is unless you have a highly ethical salesman, and yes they do exist, and he knows all the antidotes to the contract, I am afraid that you are stuffed! The Danwood service & or evergreen contract is very good....for Danwood.

 

I would personally advise avoiding it and getting a standard lease and separate service contract from another OGC supplier. It may appear that you are paying slightly more initially but you will definitely save more than money in the long run!

 

I can't help but disagree with all of these comments, we have been with Danwood for two years now and had nothing but exceptional service from them.

 

I've got a 4 hour callout on all our printers 4X big Konica's, 4x Sharp Photocopiers and around 40 x Desk Printers.

 

Maybe it was your salesman, if you want i'll put you in touch with our salesman and you'll change your minds

 

 

Dan

[JustDoit1]

ok, where do I start.

 

BE VERY CAREFULL WITH DANWOOD. In the beginning they good, then comes the rising quarterly bills & they insist they still saving you money.

 

Check your contract through. Make sure its an OGC contract, then your protected. If your on their EVERGREEN contract your screwed. Thats a never ending contract that you sign every quarter that resets your time limit on the contract...so it becomes a never enjding contract.

 

I can give you so much more details etc... Just ask...

 

In a sense, id say stay away if you can, but sounds like you already signed up!!

 

 

Has anyone been able to get out of a Damwood service/lease agreement?

[Printerman]

Hi Dan

 

I didn't say their service was particularly bad, I just said watch out for their contracts!

 

Another concern I do have though is that even though the engineers are good, the poor guys have to carry parts for a range of manufacturers kit. They may have parts for HP as well as Sharp, Konica Minolta, Canon, Panasonic, Samsung and goodness knows what else. With the best engineer in the world, his chance of having the right part for your machine is severely reduced isn't it?

 

Also how can he build solid experience in every product? One engineer that visited a friend's site to service his kit seemed very good, but on chatting to him, he seemed frustrated with trying to be a "jack of all trades" (not his words, mine).

 

Just some ideas that may help. Even though I like the concept and some of the engineers, I will be considering other suppliers in 3 months when our own contract comes up for review. I want as close to zero hassle from my supplier as possible!

[SueWIlson]

Ladies and Gentlemen, I have read with interest the replies to Ben Stanton regarding the use of Safecom with Danwood and was concerned to learn of the problems that have been aired with regard to various types of contract that are in use. For the avoidance of doubt I would like to clarify the situation to allay members' fears. Danwood use a variety of different contracts through Danwood Group Finance.

1. Rental - the rental contract for schools normally goes through the OGC contract, is completely transparent, service is charged separately, again on OGC pricing, it is easy to register with OGC and benchmark all the manufacturers, suppliers, products and pricing.

2. Total volume plan - this contract combines the rental and service cost and by adding the two quarterly amounts together and dividing by the volume, creates a cost per page. The advantage of this contract is that the volume dictates the payment made each quarter, and if the machine is over-used, the contract will end early, with no financial liability to the school.

3. Evergreen - this is a complicated contract and was designed in essence as a large, revolving corporate credit card. The fixed payment kicks in when the technology refresh period has been completed and pays down the capital outstanding. At any time during the fixed period, the contract can be opened up to allow new equipment to flow into the contract, either additional machines or machine changes. The contract is designed to keep payments within a budget that the school is comfortable with. Because the Evergreen contract is complicated, the decision was made two years ago to withdraw it from the market place for schools

 

I note that there are queries over the terms of the Evergeen contract and would be pleased to supply any of the members who have the contract, with terms and conditions relating to their contract and to visit them and explain to them in detail so that they understand the contract and can either use it to their benefit or change to a fixed rental plus service should they wish to do so.

 

My contact details are as follows:

Gary Elms, Director of Danwood Group Finance

gary. elms @danwood.co.uk (01522 8344565)

[RachealT]

Does that mean the Educational Sector are too stupid to understand Evergreen Contracts? The Director of Danwood seems to have his own foot in his mouth.!!

[jamesb]

Does that mean the Educational Sector are too stupid to understand Evergreen Contracts? The Director of Danwood seems to have his own foot in his mouth.!!

 

No, it sounds to me like its a complicated contract and he's offering to help anyone who needs a little help.

 

How many people working in the Education Sector are contract lawyers in their spare time?

[srochford]

No, it sounds to me like its a complicated contract and he's offering to help anyone who needs a little help.

 

How many people working in the Education Sector are contract lawyers in their spare time?

 

This is one of the downsides of moving budget control to individual schools - you don't have a legal team on hand. I suspect that even when LEAs totally managed school budgets there were still contracts signed that were unfair.

 

Of course, in an ideal world, contracts would be nice and simple and you wouldn't need a lawyer to go through it all. Sadly, the world isn't ideal.

 

Incidentally, just on a technical note, you don't have to type in user ID/password on safecom devices. If your users have pretty much any kind of ID card then you can just use that (the HP devices will work with readers for MiFare smart cards or magnetic stripes)

[SueWIlson]

James B is correct. THis is a genuine offer of help to anyone who needs it and to help resolve any outstanding issues.

[MarriottOne]

Just looking through this forum, and I am looking at replacing all the printers/copiers at the 6 site offices my company has. We currently have an Evergreen contract with Danwood and all i can say is we have SHAFTED royally!!! I don't know how their salesman sleep at night they are absolute rip off merchants - anyone thinking of using them....DO NOT thats all the advice I can give find another company