Simcfc73 Posted February 5, 2019 Posted February 5, 2019 Hi, We've just got our pricing from Openreach for installing a 100/100 bearer and I was really hoping the cost would be absorbed with the grant but its still come out at £2k. What sort of prices have people experienced with this sort of install, I know different sites have different obstacle and I've heard some massive quotes. We want to move onto SIP from ISDN but we don't have a money tree.
mrbios Posted February 5, 2019 Posted February 5, 2019 Hi, We've just got our pricing from Openreach for installing a 100/100 bearer and I was really hoping the cost would be absorbed with the grant but its still come out at £2k. What sort of prices have people experienced with this sort of install, I know different sites have different obstacle and I've heard some massive quotes. We want to move onto SIP from ISDN but we don't have a money tree. Can't help with your main problem, but you could move to SIP from ISDN on a much slower line. Have you looked at the possibility of a normal business brand line for putting your SIP on? Mines on an EoFTTC line for example, which is only a 20mb line, but even a 2mb line would have been fine for what SIP will likely need. Then it's setup to use our leased line in the event of a failure of that line. (Done due to an issue with the original line rather than being designed that way, but you could do the same if your main line is heavily saturated and can't be improved without large costs)
FN-GM Posted February 5, 2019 Posted February 5, 2019 Hi, We've just got our pricing from Openreach for installing a 100/100 bearer and I was really hoping the cost would be absorbed with the grant but its still come out at £2k. What sort of prices have people experienced with this sort of install, I know different sites have different obstacle and I've heard some massive quotes. We want to move onto SIP from ISDN but we don't have a money tree. Is the £2k for the cost of install? It costs us about that but if we take out a 3 year deal the install is free.
Cache Posted February 5, 2019 Posted February 5, 2019 We run our SIP lines over a dedicated FTTC connection, not had any issues in the 18 months we've had it this way so far. I suppose it will depend on how many lines you need?
Simcfc73 Posted February 6, 2019 Author Posted February 6, 2019 I was looking to offset the increased cost of the leased line against the savings of the free phone calls. They gave us almost £3k towards the install but I need to check if that's for a 3 year or 5 year deal.
Wave9_Lee Posted February 6, 2019 Posted February 6, 2019 It's not clear what you're buying from your post Simcfc73 (at least to me - maybe my fault!) Openreach don't provide Internet, and generally won't quote end-sites direct, unless it's a new build. As others have said, you can run SIP over an ADSL line in some circumstances - unless you're needing dozens of channels..
SchoolsBroadband Posted February 7, 2019 Posted February 7, 2019 The cost to an Openreach communications provider for a point to point Ethernet Access Direct or an school to exchange Ethernet Access Direct Local Access circuit is actually £1,850 + any ECC costs. Most carriers (such as Talk Talk, Vodafone, BT wholesale etc) either charge this on a 12 month contract or amortise the cost over 3 years. BT Openreach always charges the carrier £1,850 for a 100Mbit or 1Gbit circuit. 10Gbit circuits are around the £5 - £6k mark to install if memory serves me correctly. Thanks Dave
FN-GM Posted February 7, 2019 Posted February 7, 2019 The cost to an Openreach communications provider for a point to point Ethernet Access Direct or an school to exchange Ethernet Access Direct Local Access circuit is actually £1,850 + any ECC costs. Most carriers (such as Talk Talk, Vodafone, BT wholesale etc) either charge this on a 12 month contract or amortise the cost over 3 years. BT Openreach always charges the carrier £1,850 for a 100Mbit or 1Gbit circuit. 10Gbit circuits are around the £5 - £6k mark to install if memory serves me correctly. Thanks Dave Would this also apply for a point to point between 2 sites please?
SchoolsBroadband Posted February 7, 2019 Posted February 7, 2019 Yes, that's called a BT Openreach Ethernet Access Direct circuit. If you want one do let me know, happy to quote Dave
Achandler Posted February 7, 2019 Posted February 7, 2019 You can see a list of Openereach prices online, they publish the standard costs. It doesn't surprise me that they reach over the install limits, they rip you off for everything. Your install costs will be £1500, but we'll send someone to survey to check, you think ok that makes sense. Openreach then send you the bill for the survey, that they enforce you to have but don't include in the normal costs. Also £10 per meter of trunking, £50 to drill a wall etc. Soon racks up. That's ignoring the standard incompetence and jobsworth that usually turn up and do one miniscule part of a job. Like the guy who has to unplug the equipment and move it, but someone else plugs in it. The guy who runs fibre can't run a phone line but can't splice fibre, he literally puts it to the right place... Call they BT by mistake and they get offended, as they are Openreach... Which is part of the BT Group still... and might as well still be, they aren't independent really and they have the same attitude.
SchoolsBroadband Posted February 7, 2019 Posted February 7, 2019 on the whole we find them a lot better than they used to be. I forgot to say that as part of the install BT will waives the first £2800 and a bit of ECC charges. So you only pay what's on top of that. Thanks Dave
Wave9_Lee Posted February 7, 2019 Posted February 7, 2019 You can see a list of Openereach prices online, they publish the standard costs. It doesn't surprise me that they reach over the install limits, they rip you off for everything. Your install costs will be £1500, but we'll send someone to survey to check, you think ok that makes sense. Openreach then send you the bill for the survey, that they enforce you to have but don't include in the normal costs. Also £10 per meter of trunking, £50 to drill a wall etc. Soon racks up. That's ignoring the standard incompetence and jobsworth that usually turn up and do one miniscule part of a job. Like the guy who has to unplug the equipment and move it, but someone else plugs in it. The guy who runs fibre can't run a phone line but can't splice fibre, he literally puts it to the right place... Call they BT by mistake and they get offended, as they are Openreach... Which is part of the BT Group still... and might as well still be, they aren't independent really and they have the same attitude. Mmm not sure about this. To be fair to Openreach, their pricing is totally transparent (bear in mind this is only from the end user site to the nearest exchange, no aggregation, routing, back-haul, peering or internet, so only a small proportion of the cost). The survey charge is included in any order, so usually free. If any ECCs (extra costs for dig, duct etc) are identified, Openreach will cover the first £2,800 and if the ECC bill is higher than this, you can cancel the order, no penalty. ECCs are pretty rare these days, usually only very rural sites, and then only if they've never had fibre before. Probably 1-2% of our orders have ECCs. This is of course for EAD (i.e. used in fibre 'leased line'), not FttP , which has gone (is going) through various iterations in terms of install costs and ECC mitigation/recharge. Once this has become more standardised, it will be pretty transparent and consistent. I have plenty of reasons to be frustrated at Openreach, but as their products are largely regulated by OFCOM and have standard process end-to-end, at least they're (mostly) predictable. We had an install last week that literally took 5 working days from order to completion. Maybe some people have a bad experience, but this might be in a difficult to serve area - when averaged out over 100's of installs, the experience is much more positive than negative, in my view. 1
Achandler Posted February 7, 2019 Posted February 7, 2019 Mine is the relocation of end equipment from one floor to another where they are charging the above. I have a copy of the excessive construction charges which include the survey, trunking costs etc.
Wave9_Lee Posted February 7, 2019 Posted February 7, 2019 Mine is the relocation of end equipment from one floor to another where they are charging the above. I have a copy of the excessive construction charges which include the survey, trunking costs etc. Yeah, fair enough. It's non-standard, and they have to charge and it's in the price book as you say. Ironically, if you'd installed it in the second location straight away it would probably have cost nothing. Appreciate it probably wasn't an option at the time! I'm not here to defend them - I think it's just that engaging them on standard, process driven, established products is pretty reliable.
Achandler Posted February 7, 2019 Posted February 7, 2019 I honestly have no real issue (except the overpriced part) of the trunking costs etc. What I don't like is being given a cost for the move, then they require a survey to be complete, then the survey is part of the ECCs. If a survey is needed to be able to move something then so be it but at least have the decency to include the cost in the move cost, as I was always having to pay it. It's like they have tried to make it look cheaper by removing part of the cost which is mandatory anyway.
Simcfc73 Posted February 7, 2019 Author Posted February 7, 2019 Ours is still over £2k with the £2800 offset. one of the surprises on the quote is Drilling external wall - 220.83 Am I buying them a new drill just for the hole.. the surveyor did say they screw you with drilling so do it yourself.
Chris_ Posted February 7, 2019 Posted February 7, 2019 (edited) Not Openreach, but we had a VM leased line installed. Installation was over 30k as there was no VM in the area and around 350m of roads had to be dug up. These quotes for an install at £2k sound very reasonable. Edited February 7, 2019 by Chris_
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