MIS Systems at BETT 2019

[David_Grashoff]

BETT - After many years of attending the annual Bett show in January, Capita has decided not to exhibit at the event in 2019.

We have made this decision because we believe how we need to effectively engage with our customers has changed. This is supported by feedback from our customers and analysis of interactions at the show.

 

Therefore, we are going to invest the time and money we normally put into Bett very differently. Concentrated on more effective ways of engaging with our customers such as more regional events and increased digital content. Whilst we have already started to put some of this in place, we are interested in working with you to understand what digital content you would find most useful and also what types of events we should run/attend with you. We’d appreciate any ideas you have and would like to capture them https://www.capita-sims.co.uk/form/engaging-our-customers .

 

Regards

David

[matt40k]

Really Vik - that is quite a statement - can you elaborate further ?

Don't know what he knows but the annual statement was talking about zero growth in the Education Service (ie SIMS) space, the half year statement said they have committed to SaaS offering detailing signification investment in SIMS8 development which is due out in 2018. I appreciate some schools might be using it but for many its just vapourware. It also goes on about focusing on growth over retention, currently 70% of its revenue is from existing contract. You've got independent report on the MIS market based on DfE data that shows losses, not gains. It states some gains internationally, mainly in India, but India doesn't like people outsourcing the work, which I guess is why its outsourcing work over to India. Then you've got the issue with that pesky Brexit, which could make selling internationally... interesting and lets not forget about the whole ICO CTF issue. Then you've got the whole overall fact investors are staying clear of Capita.

 

Lot of pressure on you folks.

[supportman]

What we know at the moment about Capita:

 

- Sims 8 has been delayed by at least 6 months according to their latest Roadmap

- Capita senior staff are leaving from their educational division

- The only real way for their market share, in the UK at least is down as they had a virtual monopoly for the last 15 years

- They are not attending the biggest educational IT show BETT

- They have raised their prices on the current Sims 7

- Many schools are being rolled up into MATS which Capita do not have a real solution for yet

- The Capita Share price has gone down 80% in the last year (this is for the whole group and hugely influenced by their debt but also Clarions collapse)

- Capita's chief executive Jonathan Lewis has stated that the turnaround strategy involves cost cutting and not growth

 

Sounds like a perfect storm to me. Certainly I will be looking around BETT this year with interest at competitors. I'm just surprised that there are still very few valid options.

Edited November 15, 2018 by supportman

[vikpaw]

Don't know what he knows but ...

snip

... and lets not forget about the whole ICO CTF issue. Then you've got the whole overall fact investors are staying clear of Capita.

I can't reveal my sources, suffice to say it was long ago, things have changed now with plenty of division as well as general overall losses. Plenty of press on various sub-divisions being sold off.

 

Before coming back to topic, one query: Presumably there's a contingency fund for any potential fines slapped down by the ICO.

 

As for options at BETT, in terms of state schools what are we looking at? Bromcom, then maybe Arbor / Schoolbase.

Scholarpack is great for Primary.

Independents I favour Engage (given i've used it most).

 

No experience of the others aside from Bromcom some 15 years ago.

 

Fully web-based - Arbor, Bromcom, iSAMS, Schoolbase.

 

Can't say it's an easy time to make a choice, but with so many MATs and schools looking to change, it's a dire time to opt-out of BETT.

 

The game is on, and I think the next two years of MIS churn analysis will be very interesting. Keeping an eye on Bring more data

[Ma2]

If a company decides to focus employee time and expenditure differently, perhaps to see if as a company it can be more effective in its' communication to a large pre-existing customer base, rather than a self-selecting audience, then perhaps competitors really do have something to be concerned about.

[supportman]

Capita share price dropped another 15% yesterday

[Ecclesbury]

Just to add another rumour nugget to this particular happy meal I heard from a direct/public source that Capita were miffed that they weren't being given the opportunity to present/host talks at BETT and were critical of the commercialisation of BETT itself.

[CAM]

It's a trade show, of course it is commercialised. The intent is to get businesses to connect with schools.

[Ecclesbury]

It's a trade show, of course it is commercialised. The intent is to get businesses to connect with schools.

 

Indeed, I actually hesitated to post it as I realised how ridiculous it sounded while I was typing, but that is pretty much what they said!

[GrumbleDook]

critical of the commercialisation of BETT itself.

 

Said every EdTech supplier, teacher, techie, Governor and parent at BETT!

[GrumbleDook]

The commercialisation is probably in reference to the same as I have said in the past, as many others have ...

 

It is not the commerce of selling to schools, but the importance of the owners squeezing as much money out of exhibitors as possible.

 

Remember that many trade shows have an entry fee for some or all of it ... in the case of BETT (and similar) it is the exhibitors, sponsors and media partners that take this on ... and UK shows are not cheap.

 

In other few paying shows you draw a crowd and speakers are part of that draw ... the better the speakers the more tickets you sell for keynotes and the like. You try to get a target audience that want to buy tickets.

 

In the case of BETT, you are trying to get a target audience that is based on a) buying the exhibitors’ products and b) are going to see effective use within the school ... the education bit.

 

If the focus is on just one you won’t get the footfall

 

So big companies *will* invest elsewhere. People say Capita are big ... Scholastic are the world’s biggest children’s publisher but they pulled out 2 years ago.

 

IIRC Crick Software shifted their investment to overseas trade ...

 

This what happens with trade shows. There are lots of events so you focus where it will make most difference.

 

Yes, the new owners have come up with a new focus but when you have already made your decisions about where you are committing your marketing spend you *can’t* suddenly change. We may see more folk back in 2020 ... we’ll just have to wait and see.

[XiJ]

If SIMS 8 is all ready to go then Capita would have a big bett presence and be pushing it like mad.

[matt40k]

Yes, the new owners have come up with a new focus but ...

New owners???

[GrumbleDook]

New owners???

 

New owners of BETT.

[matt40k]

Ahhh!!! I can't see it really making that much difference, BETT having new owners, I mean you can't say price, because other smaller players have coughed up. I can't imagine no schools \ MATs \ LAs won't turn up, even if it is just for the free pens, so you can't say it it's about footfall. Capita is a PLC, so an element is public opinion. Not turning up after sooo many years kinda raises a red flag, its just like GroupCall not turning up. Lets be honest, they don't need to turn up, but they do, to make a statement.

[GrumbleDook]

If the statement isn’t worth as much as it used to be though? And BETT is not what it use to be ... not better or worse ... just different.

 

RM have slowly shrunk. They used the move from Olympia to seriously downsize and then done the same as many others ... moved around.

 

The other thing people might not realise is the cost difference depending on where you are ... closer to the arena can cost more so people *can* move to a smaller stand and it still be more expensive.

[matt40k]

I don't think the major players need to be at the front. People will seek them out, sure most people would be happy to walk to the back if they got something - discount, an add-on for free\trial, or even a free can of drink.

 

Not sure RM is a good example!!

[GrumbleDook]

Anyone remember the year that Bromcom didn’t turn up?

 

When Toshiba pulled their sponsorship of Heppell.net and didn’t have space for BETT radio (thankfully the wonderful folk at NetSupport have become a fantastic home for it instead).

 

When BBC stopped coming ...

 

When DfE stopped ...

 

When subject associations stopped ...

 

When TeachMeet went into the arena ... and when it left the arena (one of the smartest moves ever!)

 

Depending on who you talk with *these* were big things ... but others hardly noticed.

 

People read too much into shows or no shows at trade shows. It is business ... no one is going to waste money when a particular show no longer works for them but does for others... and they find other ways of doing things.

 

The bigger the firm the earlier the decision is made about whether they will stay, move or leave ... and once you’ve made the decision then you invest elsewhere. If they made the decision ages ago, have invested elsewhere (which it seems they and others have) then you can’t magically bring in more money to put a stand back because the show owners have realised the mistakes they made that drove some suppliers away.

 

The costs of doing BETT (and other UK tradeshows) is scary ... seriously scary.

 

BESA recognise this and have worked hard to help sort it (a note for smaller firms who are members and don’t exhibit at BETT anymore ... chat to BESA as there are some interesting options) but anyone that decided to give it up for a year or two has thought long and very hard about it ... including possible negative PR and rumour mills ... and they have still opted to spend their marketing money elsewhere.

 

Yes, it will give a number of other firms a boost in many ways ... those doing data analysis are likely to do well.

 

Remember that many Capita partners will still be there ... and talking about what they do to integrate ...

 

MSPs who support Capita products (amongst others)...

 

So yes, it will be different but not that different.

 

Let’s face it ... if you are looking at other setups ... you are looking at other setups.

[matt40k]

DfE \ BBC are publicly funded, it's.... interesting. Logic doesn't always apply.

 

Bromcom not turning up was massive, it added massive weight to the rumour they might go under and stopped alot of schools even discussing them being an option.

 

The thing about Capita partners\MSPs is they support other non-SIMS MIS systems. They won't be pushing SIMS. Capita needs to push SIMS. Lot of the issues with SIMS can be resolved, Capita need to stop lying on their laurels and push. They need to accept they can't charge for everything, give some of those training sessions away for free to help schools resolve some of those issues and max the SIMS investment.

 

I can't accept a company that has, what 80% market share can't afford to make appearance at a major event.

[GrumbleDook]

Well, it is obvious that pretty much nothing is going to be accepted as any other reason in spite of trying to explain the turmoil that is BETT and how frustrating it is trying to market to schools.

 

BBC were pushed out by software vendors ... because of politics and the Curriculum Online money.

 

DfE pulled as a policy decision and that forced pretty much all associated groups to pull ...

 

There are times when 1 or 2 folk make a decision on high and everyone else in the company / organisation, no matter how they know it could look, has to just get on with it.

 

As I’ve put already ... there are quite a few understandable reasons why it has been done and why it may not change.

 

I don’t particularly know which one of the many options it could be, but the party line is they will see more people and get more done by doing things like the regional roadshows *driven by the DfE* ... which would sound like a pretty good option.

 

Marketing budgets are not bottomless ... and my personal feeling on BETT over the years is fairly well known ... it is about making money for the owners and not about the impact on schools / children.

 

If someone points out a better option do I think companies should grab it? Hell, yeah! Do I think they are sat on their laurels? No ... I think it was a brave move ... and time will tell whether it was the right one ... but never make the presumption that just because any company / organisation has always been at BETT(or any trade show) that they always will ...

[vikpaw]

Just to add another rumour nugget to this particular happy meal I heard from a direct/public source that Capita were miffed that they weren't being given the opportunity to present/host talks at BETT and were critical of the commercialisation of BETT itself.

 

I “heard” this was ‘ranted’ at a recent Indy conference. More about the opportunity to present rather than commercialisation.

 

Am I translating this correctly (from this and other comments in this thread) to mean that the new owners are charging more? Milking it? Reducing the opportunities to present?

 

I don’t recall any talks/presentations by Capita outside of their stand, but I have missed the past couple of years.

 

Is Scholastic the sole supplier for each of their customers or do they have other sources?

 

I don’t see anything wrong with pulling out of BETT, or, deciding not to attend. However, they are a huge market leader and know the market expectations both to be there with a huge stand near the entrance and to make announcements regarding SIMS 8 or X or whatever it’s called.

 

I think it’s a bit disingenuous to not have got the message out sooner. It seems most users here are shocked. Usually places are booked a year ahead, so they either planned this well in advance or have taken a hit on pulling out.

 

Maybe the users were informed earlier. Anyone...?

 

They aren’t the only ones to be steering away, but we will notice it more as they are the behemoth.

 

You’d think they would just downsize because at least some presence is better than nothing. Even a table full of leaflets on SIMS 8 would do!

 

Sweepstake on who fills their space? I’m going with M$.

Edited November 17, 2018 by vikpaw

[vikpaw]

Sweepstake on who fills their space? I’m going with M$.

 

This springs to mind from BETT 2010

 

[NorrthDown2]

My concern is if Capita will bother to host anything in the outlying regions such as here in Northern Ireland. The centralised educational computer system we have here means they have a virtual monopoly with SIMS but very few here know how to harness the power of the products. I can see them touring England, but I wonder if the Celtic nations will them roll into town. IF they would tell us how to use their products to the full.....

[vikpaw]

I thought NI was getting extra privileges and advanced sight of new products.

[ajp233]

Capita are instead planning to deliver mini BETT's in regional areas