[sims] Urgent Capita SIMS Data Issue - Issued by childrens services

[Andycat]

I'm mean this as a serious question, but what is stopping your school from looking at alternatives?

 

We've done this recently. Properly had demos, used and tested alternatives. They all have their own problems, and all cost more.

[bald_pig]

Well done people, you've made the news!

 

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/04/04/capita_reports_incident_with_schools_information_management_system/

[Ditto]

We've done this recently. Properly had demos, used and tested alternatives. They all have their own problems, and all cost more.

Agreed, none is perfect, but I'm really surprised that all alternatives are more expensive. What's your school profile - stage and numbers? I worked the calculation on a per pupil basis and whilst a couple of MIS came in similar to SIMS, 2 or 3 others were less expensive (and basically functionally equivalent). Sticking to the topic of the thread, I guess we ought to consider the cost of release problems and decide what value to put on support.

[localzuk]

We've done this recently. Properly had demos, used and tested alternatives. They all have their own problems, and all cost more.

As someone who has done similar, I can't believe they all cost more. We had quotes from 4 other providers, and the only product more expensive than SIMS was iSAMS. ALL others were significantly cheaper.

[Ditto]

Likewise, iSAMS was more expensive but possibly the most comprehensive suite when you bundled in everything.

[Andycat]

We had iSAMS and Bromcom in, and to get similar products, with bolt ons to do what we need, over 3 years (Including installation) they were both more expensive.

[Ditto]

Ah, I see. iSAMS is higher price and most commonly seen in the independent sector. Bromcom is one of the few top 5 that I've not got costings on. I would suggest if you looked at some of the other players in the top 5, you might have found more competitive prices. Initial installation costs can also make a huge difference but in this respect I found both SIMS and iSAMS implementation/migration costs very pricey. But I go back to to support/training etc. - how do you judge those?

[elsiegee40]

 

This thread is not for comparing the offerings of the various MIS providers in price or content.

 

Please keep this discussion to the original topic. Further off topic discussion will be removed.

 

 

[matt40k]

Out of interest, is the CTF "feature" a Capita exclusive? Or do other systems suffer the same\similar problems?

[bobsmith]

a CTF is just an xml file formatted to meet a particular standard. You can make them yourself easily enough.

 

So in terms of this "feature" there is no fundamental reason that any other supplier would have the same bug, as the issue is in the code they are using either when exporting the data from SIMS or (like last time) the code they are running to match the data from the file to the students in the database.

[Arthur]

Just received this e-mail from Capita.

 

Dear colleague

 

Further to my previous email I am writing to provide an update in relation to the CTF incident. Our investigation is now complete and a patch will be available early next week.

 

Once the patch is made available please apply to ensure the potential CTF issue is addressed. Please note this patch is applicable for the Spring 2019 release. If you are currently on the Autumn release you will need to upgrade prior to applying the patch. For Capita Hosted SIMS customers, the Spring release was applied on 29th March and the patch will be applied as soon as it is available. I will send a further update as soon as the patch is available.

 

Once again Capita ESS apologises for any concern or impact to our schools that may have arisen from this incident.

 

An update has been posted on My Account along with additional information https://myaccount.capita-cs.co.uk/Notifications/sims-newsfeed-ctf-spring-2019/

[pete]

IMPORTANT: 2019 Spring Release – When this unique CTF Incident occurs (Update on 04 April 2019)

 

If a school imports a CTF into the SIMS Spring 2019 release that contains a person with an incomplete address that is missing all of the following:

 

house name or number

apartment number

Postcode

 

The incomplete address details will be inserted into any learner contacts being added by the CTF file who have no address record. In other words, incorrect partial data would be inserted into all blank addresses against new contact records.

 

Also incomplete address details will be inserted into SIMS where a learner contact already exists in SIMS and the same learner contact is present in the CTF, and neither have an address record. In other words, incorrect partial data would be inserted into a blank address against an existing contact record.

 

“Street Name”, “Locality”, “Town” and “Region” information (i.e. partial address) would be transferred in both instances.

 

So, yeah....

[PotNoodleTech]

It's great to know out most important data is in safe hands.

[DODICT]

If they went bust the world would be a better place - force a lot of people who persist with the system to look at options. And if they are competitors coming out more expensive you simply aren't negotiating or looking at the totality of cost. The biggest one often overlooked is staff time making the thing function.

[Arthur]

So, yeah....

There's also a bug with FMS now...

 

FMS Spring 2019 Release - CFR

To resolve the issue with the CFR return, where the figures are appearing on Tab 5 Balances against B06 Community Focused School Revenue Balances incorrectly, patch 24825 has been made available via SOLUS for you to apply. Further details can be found via My Account https://myaccount.capita-cs.co.uk/Notifications/SIMSFMS_CFR/

 

There is also a video providing guidance on the E28 changes, how to review and amend your CFR mappings within FMS available on the Customer Success Resources Hub https://myaccount.capita-cs.co.uk/Notifications/cs-cfr2019/

 

If you require any further assistance then please contact the Service Desk in the usual way.

[mavhc]

If they went bust the world would be a better place - force a lot of people who persist with the system to look at options. And if they are competitors coming out more expensive you simply aren't negotiating or looking at the totality of cost. The biggest one often overlooked is staff time making the thing function.

 

People should put the prices they pay on edugeek so others don't get ripped off/so they can find out if they're being ripped off.

[Greg]

Patch 24836 has just been released to fix the issue

[Koldov]

So....

 

SIMS Spring 2019 update.... then patch - 24836

 

FMS Spring 2019 update..... then patch - 24825

 

Yes...?

 

Or, see how long I can hold off... just in case...

 

Really wanted to get this done over the Easter Holidays!

[matt40k]

People should put the prices they pay on edugeek so others don't get ripped off/so they can find out if they're being ripped off.

If only schools could group together a bulk buy ensuring we get not only the best price but reduce the red tape by using some kinda of standard procurement framework, maybe we could combine this into a sort of app store where people could see all the suppliers in one place that have their product\services checked etc. Oh wait, that's Digital Marketplace - https://www.digitalmarketplace.service.gov.uk/

 

Oh but they give you a better deal if you go outside the marketplace? Huh, and they give you a bigger discount if you buy in the next 24 hours? That doesn't sound crooked at all.

[mavhc]

If only schools could group together a bulk buy ensuring we get not only the best price but reduce the red tape by using some kinda of standard procurement framework, maybe we could combine this into a sort of app store where people could see all the suppliers in one place that have their product\services checked etc. Oh wait, that's Digital Marketplace - https://www.digitalmarketplace.service.gov.uk/

 

Oh but they give you a better deal if you go outside the marketplace? Huh, and they give you a bigger discount if you buy in the next 24 hours? That doesn't sound crooked at all.

 

That website is so weird, firstly where's the search button? I can't even see anything to buy except cloud services.

[matt40k]

I'm not rocket scientist, but I tried...

 

Find cloud hosting, software and support

Save a search > click green button

All categories > click green button

Type the word "MIS" into the search

 

and it popped up with Arbor, Pupil Asset, Progresso, Bromcom, RM, ScholarPack...

 

Logically your MIS system prob wants to be hosted cause it'll have better security, redundancy and you know, there is more to life then applying SIMS patches

[mavhc]

Guess I was thinking more broadly. There's the other gov procurement site, but that's even weirder. At least this one has pricing, albeit in per product pdf form

[djrscally]

Guess I was thinking more broadly. There's the other gov procurement site, but that's even weirder. At least this one has pricing, albeit in per product pdf form

 

Take them with a pinch of salt though; they were only accurate for a few suppliers when I looked at renewal quotes.

[matt40k]

Take them with a pinch of salt though; they were only accurate for a few suppliers when I looked at renewal quotes.

You mean they were actually cheaper?

[blueday]

Deja vu

From Capita website:

 

IMPORTANT: 2019 Spring Release awareness regarding CTF imports

 

28/06/2019

We have identified a specific scenario which has affected CTF imports for a handful of schools who have taken the SIMS Spring 2019 release.

 

The specific scenario arises when a contact exists in SIMS and an imported CTF contains this existing SIMS contact (e.g. sibling) and a new contact with the same surname, forename and gender. Following the CTF import the new contacts telephone number and email address are appended to the existing contact held in SIMS. The pupil associated with the new contact (in the CTF file) is also incorrectly linked to the existing contact held in SIMS.

 

A database patch which addresses this scenario has been developed and is currently being tested. Testing will continue over the weekend and we will provide a further update on Monday 1 July. Our advice is not to use the CTF mechanism to import pupil and contact details from other schools until this database patch is available and applied to SIMS.

 

Capita ESS apologises for any impact to our customers that may be affected. We will keep you informed as information becomes available.