Educational software vendors must

[David-BE]

Selling educational software into primary and secondary schools is a daunting task for our tiny startup.

 

What do you wish such vendors would consider doing to make the procurement, installation, and use of the product as frictionless as possible?

 

In our case the product will be cloud hosted (AWS probably, other options possible) and designed to run in a web browser (single page app). Subscription management, authentication, identity management, profile storage, and privacy compliance are in the planning stages. You can think of this as SaaS rather than an installable product. Since code and assets will download and run in the client browser we will need our domain whitelisted to function on school networks.

 

Any and all thoughts, rants and other tips would be hugely appreciated.

 

David

[mjk]

What do you wish such vendors would consider doing to make the procurement, installation, and use of the product as frictionless as possible?

 

100% web based, no plugins.

Integration with Google Suite and O365 especially for Single Sign On and document storage.

Integrations with Google Classroom.

API access for school (depending upon what the app does of course)

Pricing for *use* not per user - or just a sensible site cost. none of this 5$ per user per month business.

[sted]

stop using flash

[mjk]

.... and per domain whitelisting - If I buy a site license for all my users I don't expect to have to upload a pre-historic csv file every 5 minutes when you could simply whitelist the domain with a social auth plugin

[Roberto]

Selling educational software into primary and secondary schools is a daunting task for our tiny startup.

 

What do you wish such vendors would consider doing to make the procurement, installation, and use of the product as frictionless as possible?

 

In our case the product will be cloud hosted (AWS probably, other options possible) and designed to run in a web browser (single page app). Subscription management, authentication, identity management, profile storage, and privacy compliance are in the planning stages. You can think of this as SaaS rather than an installable product. Since code and assets will download and run in the client browser we will need our domain whitelisted to function on school networks.

 

Any and all thoughts, rants and other tips would be hugely appreciated.

 

David

 

• Needs to have admin control separate from teacher login; not all admins are teachers, not all teachers are admins.
  
• Admins need to be able to find and delete personal information related to users (something something GDPR). Also we need data be removed in a timely manner when accounts expire, ideally in an automated maner if we're using SSO to integrate logins with AD, for example.
  
• Login needs to be possible via SAML SSO or similar to work with most of the single sign solutions you might find in schools (e.g. it must work with ADFS for Microsoft shops, other SSO standards for people predominantly using Google apps for Education)
  
• No, I'm not uploading user information with a CSV file.
  
• Should be platform independent (that at least should be reasonably easy in a web app). I should be able to run it from an iPad, a Chromebook or a Windows box, among others, without any drama.
  

Edited March 14, 2018 by Roberto

[JJonas]

If I have to deploy it on my network it should be easy.

 

It should work for students on a locked down account.

 

It should not stop working just because I'm running an older version.

Edited March 14, 2018 by JJonas

[3s-gtech]

If you have written your software in Java, stop. Now do it again in something else. Make sure that it doesn't need full admin permissions to run (reliably). Make sure it supports modern screen resolutions and scaling. Provide an MSI if it's per-machine installed - provide good clear instructions if it's purely server/web-based. Don't treat customers like a cash machine.

[mjk]

If you have written your software in Java, stop. Now do it again in something else. Make sure that it doesn't need full admin permissions to run (reliably). Make sure it supports modern screen resolutions and scaling. Provide an MSI if it's per-machine installed - provide good clear instructions if it's purely server/web-based. Don't treat customers like a cash machine.

Some of the most reliable web based software has a Java backend. Papercut, Google, Bing, Twitter, Amazon

We are talking Web apps here - not apps that you need to manage.

[TechMonkey]

If you work with my MIS API I will love you forever, a CSV import is not the same. Though O365/GSuite integration and automatic setup is a close second. We are getting more and more online resources and I don't want to have keep them all updated, not only at the beginning of the year but also every time someone new joins.

Yes to being able to set users who are admins and have multiple admins, rather than a single nominated account that is for some reason restricted in the other things it can do. I will inevitably be called in to look at something the staff don't understand or can't work out, or to rescue a service when the people who ran it left and forgot to pass on the administrator mantle. On the other hand I don't really need (want) to deal with the day to day tasks so the head of department or nominate person will want admin or some admin abilities.

A decent search or filtering system married with a bulk updating system so I can quickly get pupils together and change them, whether it is changing the year group they are in, form, or class.

 

Basically think about the administration as much as you do your content. Most educational titles I have found the administration side is an afterthought and they developers have a weird that nothing changes, is adjusted or edited throughout the year or ever.

 

Hope that helps

[David-BE]

What great feedback so far - thanks from the bottom of our hearts!

 

No Flash and No plugins needed. App will scale for browsers and support touch. What is the oldest browser we really need to support?

 

David

[hardtailstar]

What is the oldest browser we really need to support?

 

David

 

IE10......

[David-BE]

Pricing per use could help us keep cloud costs from getting out of control. But if students can work on projects from home computers as well does that change your interest in the pricing model?

[David-BE]

IE10......

 

Ugh that hurts.

[David-BE]

If you work with my MIS API I will love you forever, ...

Hope that helps

 

Huge help. Sorry for being dense - which MIS API.

 

David

[hardtailstar]

Ugh that hurts.

 

Thats how low you'll have to go with us. Or Chrome.

[mjk]

Pricing per use could help us keep cloud costs from getting out of control. But if students can work on projects from home computers as well does that change your interest in the pricing model?

 

It really depends on what the application is; Most apps get used for a small part of the curriculum - maybe a few hours per week only in a single term/semester but vendors try to charge as if they are used 8hrs per day every day.

I think the issue is that vendors buy in huge AWS/GCP/Azure servers to cope with an expected demand and not utilise a sensible scaling approach.

[mjk]

Huge help. Sorry for being dense - which MIS API.

 

David

 

in the U.K the major players are Capita SIMS, Arbor, iSAMs, Bromcom (sorry for those I missed). They all have an API for third parties.

[David-BE]

.... and per domain whitelisting - If I buy a site license for all my users I don't expect to have to upload a pre-historic csv file every 5 minutes when you could simply whitelist the domain with a social auth plugin

 

That sounds like a nightmare. To be clear, I'm seeking to put our cloud based app, assets, and authentication behind a single domain so that school networks will only need to whitelist our domain.

 

The possible exception could be if we outsource authentication to something like Auth0.com or Okta. Can we reasonably expect that student laptops can reach these sites due to the popularity of the authentication solutions?

 

David

[David-BE]

If you have written your software in Java, stop. Now do it again in something else. Make sure that it doesn't need full admin permissions to run (reliably). Make sure it supports modern screen resolutions and scaling. Provide an MSI if it's per-machine installed - provide good clear instructions if it's purely server/web-based. Don't treat customers like a cash machine.

 

Solution is Javascript based, as browser independent as possible. Just need Javascript enabled and ability to reach our server.

[TechMonkey]

Huge help. Sorry for being dense - which MIS API.

 

David

 

This will be the issue for you guys, I was generic because I realise there are multiple APIs you will have to program for and that adds programming load and possible extra cost for licensing. Personally iSAMS but I guess you would need the usual suspects, SIMS, Progresso, Facility, 3SYS, etc. It maybe you can add a small cost for having the API access, I would pay it as it saves me time and effort, but it would give the school the opportunity to decide that actual they are happy doing it manually.

[3s-gtech]

For Java, I meant JRE. JS, no problem. I'll also say that Educational software vendors must...keep in touch with the target market and their customers, which is exactly what you're doing so bravo!

[Arthur]

What is the oldest browser we really need to support?

I would say the oldest browsers that support TLSv1.2 (see list below). Supporting ancient browsers not only wastes your time, but is bad in terms of security too.

 

https://wiki.mozilla.org/Security/Server_Side_TLS#Modern_compatibility

 

For services that don't need backward compatibility, the parameters below provide a higher level of security. This configuration is compatible with Firefox 27, Chrome 30, IE 11 on Windows 7, Edge, Opera 17, Safari 9, Android 5.0, and Java 8.

 

Also, please make sure your website doesn't get cryptojacked...

 

https://scotthelme.co.uk/protect-site-from-cryptojacking-csp-sri

 

and make the app/website only accessible via HTTPS...

 

https://scotthelme.co.uk/our-journey-to-a-https-only-world

 

IE10......

Why? It's not difficult to deploy the latest Chrome or Firefox. There isn't any excuse for using such an old browser.

Edited March 14, 2018 by Arthur

[David-BE]

Thats how low you'll have to go with us. Or Chrome.

Chrome browser running on Windows, ChromeOS on the old Windows hardware (Neverware), or are students there also on Chromebooks?

[hardtailstar]

Why? It's not difficult to deploy the latest Chrome or Firefox. There isn't any excuse for using such an old browser.

 

We have the latest Chrome on computers but some of the legacy software we use in some departments does not work on newer browsers. The software itself hasn't been updated and we keep telling Staff to find an alternative for when we roll out Win10.

 

Chrome browser running on Windows, ChromeOS on the old Windows hardware (Neverware), or are students there also on Chromebooks?

 

Currrently Win7 with Chrome

[dhicks]

To be clear, I'm seeking to put our cloud based app, assets, and authentication behind a single domain so that school networks will only need to whitelist our domain. The possible exception could be if we outsource authentication to something like Auth0.com or Okta. Can we reasonably expect that student laptops can reach these sites due to the popularity of the authentication solutions?

 

I think you might be answering a different point (good answer, mind). I think the original post meant that you, the vendor, can whitelist the school's domain / IP address. So, for a school with the domain name myschool.sch.uk, they pay a yearly all-users subscription, now anyone who logs in to your system with an email address ending in myschool.sch.uk is seen as a registered user, no more setup needed. If you're using Google OAuth, you can get the domain membership separatly from the user's email address at the very lowest level of user data access (so you record just a Google ID number and the domain membership), meaning you don't need to record any personal data about the user at all (not even their email address). Some sites also skip having to have logins at all, going on the IP address of the request (does it come from a fixed IP address that someone's registered as the school's?) or the domain of the refering link (so schools can put a link to the site on their VLE that takes users straight, no separate login needed).

 

In answer to your question above, most schools certainly should find it easy enough to make sure that Auth0.com / Okta / etc are reachable through filters, although you might want to check and test whichever service you pick to make sure there's nothing too fiddly involved in a school unblocking it.

 

What sort of thing does your product do? I'm currently spending two days a week working on a tool to allow batch job scripts to be easily run on files in assorted online file storage services - not just for schools, but certainly likely to initially have more schools-related functionality. It might be an idea to compare notes / ideas - send me a PM at some point.