Starting to drive/ride... should I get a bike?

[localzuk]

You mentioned you were tall Localzuk! Have you got a bike in mind yet? I would highly recommend a Honda Varadero 125... Honda stopped making them in 2013 (I think) but have just released a load of old stock, registered 2017. They're an excellent 125 with size and styling akin to a larger engined bike, have huge road presence and are very economical and reliable. They also hold their value very well too

The guy I'm doing all this with has about 50 different 125's in stock. So, I'll likely be going by feel and trying a bunch out.

[Andrew_C]

I'd avoid Chinese or Korean. They are now where Japan was in the 60s & early 70s. Bikes with the strength of cheese, and a resale value of less than nothing.

[abillybob]

Sorry I haven't read all the thread so not sure if this is still relevant. But in reply to the actual question I think bikes are great, when I was 17 I passed my CBT and rode a de-restricted 50cc Speedfight 2, they go much quicker than you'd expect after all the mods and de-restrictions had taken place on my bike it would do 55mph on a straight and 60 down a hill. It was so much fun and great because it didn't cost anything really compared to my car, even at 17 my insurance was low at around £300, the tax was non existent and £7 of fuel would last me a week of travelling.

 

I had a few accidents with my bike though which have transferred across as experience and I do believe I am a much safer driver as a result of it but out of my one and a bit years driving a bike I nearly died or could have been paralysed at the age of 17. My worst crash was stupidly overtaking someone who decided to turn right at the last minute as I was overtaking and hit me off my bike. He didn't indicate or know where he was going he just saw a pull-in and swung his car right so he didn't miss it. I came off at around 55mph and luckily I was wearing all my protective gear as I didn't normally bother to but this time it was raining. I hit the ground on my shoulder first and broke my collar bone which was sticking out of the skin, I also ripped a lot of skin off from my right hip which was gushing blood so much so that when I got back up after the crash I thought it was water to start with. I needed a skin graph and surgery on my collar bone. The state of my gear and helmet was something quite scary and I never rode without them again.

 

That was my worst one but I crashed around 8 times on the bike 90% not being my fault, drivers just wouldn't see me! My SO's dad was driving a motorbike at around the age of 38 and came off at speed, he's now a paraplegic and can't move any muscles from the shoulders down for the rest of his life. This wasn't his fault either and he was only going 40mph.

 

What I will say is this, bikes are great fun, cheap and handy to have. I love bikes and was recently looking at getting another scooter maybe the speedfight 4 when I have the money but I wouldn't use them as my only means of transport anymore. They are not safe no matter how careful you are you're not always the one at fault even falling at a slow speed but in the wrong way can leave you paralysed for the rest of your life. I would even think about riding them in slightly wet conditions if I got one now or snow (yes I once tried stupidly riding one in the snow) It would have to be the perfect weather for it and I'd be selective on the days I took it out to minimise my risk. My SO isn'tpleased about me thinking of getting one and won't even step on a bike since what happened to her dad.

 

You have to be incredibly careful and the choice at the end of the day is yours. But I would seriously consider getting a car first and then thinking of a bike afterwards... I was one of the lucky one's.

 

Here's some pictures of my terrible crash, his car was damaged apart from a small scratch on his alloy wheel.

 

 

This is after the crash I rebuilt my bike, resprayed, fixed the engine, this was good fun etc..

 

 

This is how it was before the crash

[pcstru]

That was my worst one but I crashed around 8 times on the bike 90% not being my fault, drivers just wouldn't see me!

IMO anyone who has the attitude of "not my fault" should not go anywhere near a bike. You simply have to take responsibility for other peoples mistakes - not spotting high risk situations (overtaking on or near a junction for example) and avoiding them becomes a 'fault' and specifically your fault! Of course there is always a risk that even with extra high levels of diligence you will still come a cropper but if you do not think it is possible to avoid the majority of "it was not my fault" situations by good roadcraft (and if you are not prepared to take the time to learn good road craft), then for your own sake, do not get a bike.

[abillybob]

IMO anyone who has the attitude of "not my fault" should not go anywhere near a bike. You simply have to take responsibility for other peoples mistakes - not spotting high risk situations (overtaking on or near a junction for example) and avoiding them becomes a 'fault' and specifically your fault! Of course there is always a risk that even with extra high levels of diligence you will still come a cropper but if you do not think it is possible to avoid the majority of "it was not my fault" situations by good roadcraft (and if you are not prepared to take the time to learn good road craft), then for your own sake, do not get a bike.

Thanks for that I suppose that one time I was stationary in a lay-by and a person in a car went at speed, lost control and sent me flying off my bike was my fault too, shouldn't have been in a lay-by and should have noticed the risk. Thing is you could easily say then that every crash a biker has is his own fault. I think IMO you're just spouting BS, but that's my opinion. I forget you have super human sight and spider senses. We're all human and people make mistakes I really don't understand what your reply is trying to achieve.

 

My SO's dad was driving along a 40 and a person pulled out in front of him from a junction very last minute... but I suppose this was also his responsibility

[pcstru]

Thanks for that I suppose that one time I was stationary in a lay-by and a person in a car went at speed, lost control and sent me flying off my bike was my fault too, shouldn't have been in a lay-by and should have noticed the risk. Thing is you could easily say then that every crash a biker has is his own fault. I think IMO you're just spouting BS, but that's my opinion. I forget you have super human sight and spider senses. We're all human and people make mistakes I really don't understand what your reply is trying to achieve.

 

My SO's dad was driving along a 40 and a person pulled out in front of him from a junction very last minute... but I suppose this was also his responsibility

I encourage you to read what I wrote with a bit more care and thought. I will draw to your attention specifically the words "Of course there is always a risk that even with extra high levels of diligence you will still come a cropper". However, 8 accidents strongly suggests room for improvement in being diligent. Giving up the bike was a sensible response and it seems we would both agree on that.

[Garacesh]

@abillybob, you seem to be confusing "a part of the blame" with "all of the blame"

 

It takes two+ to have an accident (usually), and whilst legally speaking the blame usually lies with a single party, there is still a point to be made that most of the time a collision that "wasn't my fault" still involved a person putting themselves in a position where an accident had a greater potential to happen. A lot of the time good road sense would have dictated you not be in that position in the first place.

[abillybob]

My bad boys and girls I took it a different way to how you meant it! My sincere apologies @pcstru I just skim read and didn't really take the time out.

[localzuk]

Not to be offensive @abillybob, but your view of the 50CC was about how fast it could go. That gives me a clue as to your attitude towards riding straight away! You also say you didn't normally bother with protective gear.

 

Sorry, but you don't sound like a safe rider at all.

[just_david]

I'd avoid Chinese or Korean. They are now where Japan was in the 60s & early 70s. Bikes with the strength of cheese, and a resale value of less than nothing.

I'm gonna disagree with that, I've had 2 chinese bikes now and imo they are worth it.

 

Yes they are cheep and disposable, but I can literally afford 3 for the price of one Japanese bike.

 

I've had a keeyway RKV125 and a herald, as well as a cbr125 and ybf 125.

 

okay the cbr was in a different league to the other 3, but was also 3 times the price. the ybf vs the keeway and herald was no competition. the keeyway was under a half the price and runs just as well (its actually been more reliable than the yamaha was)

 

even if its worthless in 4 years, i'll still of saved over the yamaha which at that point will of still lost more in cash terms.

 

granted over 125cc i'd go for a jap or euro bike, but given 125's are restricted anyway and all get 100mpg plus theres just no point paying the extra money.

 

That said i do really recomend the herald. its a chinese bike that a british company buy in bulk, strip, rebuild with new electrics and sprockets, then sell for £1500.

Its the most fun 125 even if it wasn't as fast as the cbr. but then its a 60mph topout vs a 65.

 

Also between me and my wife we have 8 years of bike riding and 2 accidents, both due to oil on the road at night and we walked away from both and finished our rides home because we have decent gear, not even bruised when coming off at 30.

Edited June 28, 2017 by just_david

[localzuk]

I'm gonna disagree with that, I've had 2 chinese bikes now and imo they are worth it.

I'll be doing my CBT on a Sinnis I believe.

 

Also, key thing for me is I want to get on the road quickly and without breaking the bank. I'm looking at around £1500 for my first bike.

[mikkydoos]

If on a 125 @localzuk you're not going to go anywhere fast especially when accelerating up the A road - which might be an issue.

 

Have a second plan in heavy rain and for the winter because you will come off --- and a 125 is bloody uncomfortable.

 

I helped a chap up near chesterfield the other week who pulled up at the lights coming off the motorway in front of me on a white 1100 sports bike (think it was a Yammy).

Put his foot down, felt the cramp and went over. Stopped to help him up obviously. Made a mess of his bike tho.

 

Be super careful.

[localzuk]

If on a 125 @localzuk you're not going to go anywhere fast especially when accelerating up the A road - which might be an issue.

Have a second plan in heavy rain and for the winter because you will come off --- and a 125 is bloody uncomfortable.

 

Yeah, my alternative at the moment will continue to be bus/lifts. Not a huge issue, but the majority of the time I will be able to use my bike. On the roads around here, you don't go anywhere fast anyway.

[mikkydoos]

I'll be doing my CBT on a Sinnis I believe.

 

Also, key thing for me is I want to get on the road quickly and without breaking the bank. I'm looking at around £1500 for my first bike.

@localzuk - deadly seriously m8... budget for your protective equipment first - and decent gear, especially helmet. Spend the rest on the bike !

 

You can get a decent 125 for 700 quid that'd do for a year or so. Then get another one if needed/desired.

 

 

 

Wise advice from a wise old wizard !

[abillybob]

Not to be offensive @abillybob, but your view of the 50CC was about how fast it could go. That gives me a clue as to your attitude towards riding straight away! You also say you didn't normally bother with protective gear.

 

Sorry, but you don't sound like a safe rider at all.

Yeah I get that I never used to be. I was 17 and stupid, thought I was invincible. You have to learn someway I suppose and now I rate myself as quite a sensible driver.

 

In fact a year 8 student asked why I drive so carefully and says I'm slow like his nan... I'm not I'm just careful but it's an on going joke around the office now

[localzuk]

@localzuk - deadly seriously m8... budget for your protective equipment first - and decent gear, especially helmet. Spend the rest on the bike !

 

Oh, I'm planning to, don't worry! Ain't gonna scrimp on the stuff that'll keep me alive!

[DJ-1701]

Oh, I'm planning to, don't worry! Ain't gonna scrimp on the stuff that'll keep me alive!

 

Emergency Pizza?

[pcstru]

@localzuk - deadly seriously m8... budget for your protective equipment first - and decent gear, especially helmet.

^this.

 

Boots. Good boots & Gloves.

 

Apparently @30mph, bone will wear at a rate of around 1in per second as it scrapes down the road [*1]. Some dead cow skin - not so much [*2].

 

[*1] A slightly dodgy 'fact' for which I will provide no evidence at all.

[*2] Pretty solid fact but perhaps one not to aim to vouch for personally.

[bald_pig]

This:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMKY3kLTaUY

http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/this-suit-made-of-leather-by-dainese-was-worn-by-carl-fogarty-during-picture-id90740639

 

Or this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSkVxKioqVs

 

your call!

[crc-ict]

You mentioned you were tall Localzuk! Have you got a bike in mind yet? I would highly recommend a Honda Varadero 125... Honda stopped making them in 2013 (I think) but have just released a load of old stock, registered 2017. They're an excellent 125 with size and styling akin to a larger engined bike, have huge road presence and are very economical and reliable. They also hold their value very well too

 

+1 for the Varadero. Great bikes. I had one as my learner bike and as a big lad, it was a perfect fit. Most people thought it was a bigger bike.

 

This can be a disadvantage though as other drivers tend to think you are going to be quicker than you actually are as it is is still a learner-legal 125. It IS a bit faster than the typical chinese or YBR 125 fare as it has the maximum 15hp compared to about 11hp on the chinese bikes or the YBR. But you are still looking at only a tad over 60 realistically.

[mikkydoos]

That Varadero is HUGE for a 125. Swingarm and rear remind me of the old TW 125 yammys.

 

EDIT: Maybe not - that TW125 rear tyre is ridiculous. My mate had one for a few years. Lovely to ride - but sooo slow.

 

Edited June 28, 2017 by mikkydoos

[localzuk]

That Varadero is HUGE for a 125.

I'm 6'3" and 16 stone, so big is good.

[mikkydoos]

I'm 6'3" and 16 stone, so big is good.

 

So is my m8 who had the TW125. It did look a little silly

[mikkydoos]

And another thing. If you don't drive I seriously recommend you do your bike theory test before you go anywhere near a road.

 

The CBT road training is shyte. On mine, one of the instructors thought I was too good to be plodding about with the others so we went on a 30 mile ride all over the place. It was like a big bike lesson. Brilliant!!

[DavePa]

It's been said many times in this thread but as an ex-ambulanceman, ex-driving instructor, ex-125cc bike rider (35 years ago) and father of a 25 year old who just got his 1st 125cc bike I'll say the same as everybody else - get your gear 1st and spend the rest on the bike. Bike is replaceable. Skin & bones not so easy. Don't be like the kn*bs I see on the way home every evening in shorts, A-shirts and trainers riding at 40mph between 2 lanes of traffic that is doing <10mph. Remember, as far as car drivers go, YOU have to think for THEM, There are people on the roads who have no clue where they are let alone what is around them! My late father used to say that you should never be allowed to drive a car until you've ridden a motorbike - but you should never be allowed on a motorbike until you've ridden a pushbike.

 

Take care, they may not be out to get you but they may not even know you are there either!