Theatre Lighting Revamp

[ItsOggy]

Hi All, I'm about to embark on a revamp of my Theatre Lighting. We're on Dimmer packs currently!

 

I have a couple of Chauvet COREpar 80's coming to test out for adding colour.

 

I'm still looking at spot lights, I looked at the eve e-100z, what do others use?

 

I'm also looking at DMX controllers, what do others use? Hardware or Software?

[Katy]

Our hall and drama theatre both use hard wired dimmers, the lighting is pretty basic PAR64s with a few fresnel and profiles thrown in. Both rooms have a fat frog doing the DMX. We've also got some cheap PAR64 LEDs which we can use via the feature buttons on the fat frog but they are usually thrown up as floor mounted stand alone colour changing lights as they're not really bright enough to share a rig with a load of 1kW PAR cans.

 

When we used to do our shows in-house we hired some fancy moving heads and I controlled these from the fat frog's feature buttons, not the easiest but it was doable with a bit of patience.

 

Would like to replace them with decent LEDs but no budget

[ItsOggy]

I've got a zero 88 jester 12/24 running 3 dimmers, it looks like it can do DMX-512, currently I don't have a screen attached, no space in the control room for a second screen, the PC is mostly PowerPoint and music.

 

I would love some movable lights, less ladder time for me! But I think a controller change would be needed, or something in addition, software would be easier to add than another surface in the booth!

[NB9457]

If you want ease, I'm looking at ADJ's MyDMX 3.0 to control our lights, it simple enough yet at the same time has plenty of features, reasoning for it is our lighting board, even though branded as easy, isn't really, especially when staff and students just want a working solution, so that's why I'm looking software with the light board still there in case.

 

Ordering 4 Equinox MS550 180W LEDs, cheap at £740 incVAT and should offer a lot more effects alongside the Chauvet PARs that are already up. Ordered 10 more PARs too for a portable/uplighting setup.

[Andrew_C]

You are starting from the wrong end... What do you need to achieve with these lights? A splash of colour? Proper facial modelling? Nice tight spots? Decent fades?

 

Apart from the "Splash" above, you need to avoid LEDs, unless you have £CHING available. Some of the cheap stuff is OK in other categories, but really won't fully replace tungsten. If you are looking at just brightening up a drama studio; well maybe...

[ItsOggy]

Were aiming for a few things,

 

Adding Colour - So I'm thinking the colour changing PARS

 

The Lighting is Dull in general, the floods are old so I'm looking at some LED panels

 

We have some profile's that are generally OK, they need a good clean I think!

 

Our Fresnel's, some are very old, some are OK, again cleaning will probably help.

 

Controlling in General, we had a nicer desk that died and I found the Jester in the back of the cupboard!

 

I'm looking to add some to replace the House lights, with colour changing, I may even have these on a remote rather than the control booth, making it easy for staff to have some basic lighting.

 

I think a lot will depend on testing some lights out and seeing whats possible.

[Andrew_C]

Controlling in General, we had a nicer desk that died and I found the Jester in the back of the cupboard!

Best place for it. I've never liked Zero stuff. However, for theatrical stuff, avoid DJ / Music kit. (With notable exceptions, that you probably can't afford)

I'm looking to add some to replace the House lights, with colour changing, I may even have these on a remote rather than the control booth, making it easy for staff to have some basic lighting.

A complete PITA when you are trying to do a show. Both, maybe, but not another control somewhere else.

[NB9457]

All depends on what you want really!

 

Falling back to the simplicity and remote aspect, the ADJ MyDMX does offer remote control via an app to iPads, again, another reason I'm leaning towards it, whilst it might not be ultra complex, it'll see the lighting rig used more often and easier, which to me is better than having an all singing and dancing ETC board nobody can use!

 

A few decent budget brands are Chauvet and American DJ. Ignoring the 'DJ' aspect, they do sell equipment specifically aimed at install environments and the equipment is highly praised. I often see Chauvet and ADJ equipment in schools, nightclubs and lower end theatres with not many bad words to be said!

[Katy]

I'm looking to add some to replace the House lights, with colour changing, I may even have these on a remote rather than the control booth, making it easy for staff to have some basic lighting.

We have Anytronic dimmers in the main hall and they do a "DMX Scene Controller" unit which can be programmed with DMX data. This unit plugs straight into the dimmers. When your DMX desk is turned on, it gets to control the lights, when the DMX desk is off the scene controller is in control.

 

We have the house lights and all stage lighting on the dimmers so we just pre-set one of the 7 buttons to things like "House", "House and stage", "stage" etc and works really well.

[Andrew_C]

Another negative from me I'm afraid... I'd avoid a "PC with a dongle" approach. Unless you will have absolute control over the PC. All you need is a poorly thought out "update & restart" imposed by a NM who doesn't understand these things, and your show is dead.

 

Further; fader per channel for generic lights is much easier to understand.

[3s-gtech]

We're replacing our aged system with a full LED setup. I'm sick to death of blown halogen lamps in the fresnels and spots. Our cheap DMX dimmers are also stuffed (9 out of 32 channels work, not fuses!) so now's the time to convert. Will be going for a mix of cheap (£70 odd washes etc) to a bit more pricey (£500 fresnels). Hoping it'll mean that the lights actually work when we need them, rather than having to get scaffolding to change the lamps every couple of months.

[Andrew_C]

(9 out of 32 channels work, not fuses!)

Replace the fuses? Ahhh... Thought is said "no fuses". All clear now.

 

Seriously, unless things have changed DRAMATICALLY at the cheap end of the LED market, a nice fade in or out aint's going to happen. That probably doesn't matter in a drama class, but for a public show? Just looks ****.

Edited February 9, 2017 by Andrew_C
Oops

[3s-gtech]

Yeah, there are fuses. When the lights go on (without any control possible) and the dimmer pack isn't even turned on, that would tell me there is something a bit more wild happening

 

Agreed, my feedback from reviews will be that the fades etc won't be that good. However, having the lights actually work will be a significant step up; we can work on the other point in time. I should get my ladder training cert soon so I can actually go up to move the heads too.

[Andrew_C]

Yeah, there are fuses. When the lights go on (without any control possible) and the dimmer pack isn't even turned on, that would tell me there is something a bit more wild happening

Ahh... Are they Zero 88 Betapacks by any chance? Pairs of dimmers stuck on? Really easy fix if this is the case...

[3s-gtech]

Nope, those sound much better quality than what we have. They're Showtec Multidim IECs. They've done their job and they're stuffed. They cost pennies so not worried.

[agibson]

One thing I would advise is to keep clear of blue LED light if you are needing to record or photograph performances.

 

We have recently had a lot of issues with purple/blue haze on pupils when video has been taken. After a lot of research it turns out that this is related to the frequency of the blue LED light - we have had to remove blue from any LED light set up now if we are required to send a video to the examiner. We have reverted back to traditional lights.

 

Thanks

[antlear]

Hi all, interesting read of all your pods so far. As a freelance lighting designer and tech I have played with many fixtures.

 

If you are wanting use LED fixtures then I would say only for colour.

Although there are White LED fixtures the brightness

Is something that has only really just got comparable but the price is rather high. For traditional white light I would stick to tungsten. You can pick up some decent used lights from places like usedlighting.co.uk

 

If you are looking at LEDs for colour don't go for the cheap ones. Generally anything below around £200 ish generally has a poor diming curve. Brands like Chauvet are perfect for LED lights.

 

Lighting desks:

As much as people moan about Zero88 their desks are really good and simple to use. Teachers love the ease of use of them and the build quality is really good.

Another really good console worth looking at is the LSC Mantra.

 

If you need Dimmers stick to either Strand or zero88.

[ItsOggy]

Well, my pair of Corepar 80's arrived today, I got a small DMX controller as well for them, didn't have a huge amount of time to play but I have to say, they are bright!

 

Just from the initial try I can see that having faders over software will probably be easier to manage them!

 

Nice that they feature a stand that lets you put them on the floor pointing up, will be handy for some outdoor stuff!

 

Will get them on the bar later this week and try them out!

[ItsOggy]

Well I took the chance over the half term and took all the lights down to see the wood for the trees - and change the blown bulbs!

 

(Sorry this is a long one!)

 

Over the last two years I have just tweaked and tweaked, I didn't put them up originally, the lights have ended up a real mix and uneven.

 

I've been and looked at a couple of other setups and taken a few ideas as a start, would like some opinions on the changes I made to see if my thinking is ok?

 

Our stage is floor level and a square, the seating is tiered at one end.

 

We had a few 300w PARS on the bar at the rear of the stage that were never used so after seeing this elsewhere I have distributed them around the bars pointing straight down as house lights during a show instead of using the sodium lights in the roof.

 

I cleaned and moved my profiles to the bar at the back of the seating instead of the fresnels that were there, partly because I can reach them by standing in the back seating with out a ladder.

 

I then put the rest of the fresnels (650W) evenly around the front and side bars, I matched either side with the same lamp type as some are different.

 

The COREpar's are on the front bar. They are nice for flooding colour, that makes a huge difference as colour is one thing we are going for, but I'm struggling to find a good warm white to mix with the existing, tried a few suggestions online but I think a bit of practice!

 

Generally the lighting is looking more even but still dull, I think especially given most are only 650W.

 

Im thinking of looking at 4 LED fresnels next, I think the key will be getting enough to be able to use on there own as mixing of the Warm / cool white seems to look odd. What do others do in terms of mixing LED and Tungsten?

[Andrew_C]

You've not got any back light. This is (counterintuitivly) vry important in shaping heads anf faces, and helping your actors to stand out from the background. 3 fresnels at 500/650w would do this on a small stage. If you can find a copy of Francis Reid's book on lighting, it would be a worthwhile read.

[ItsOggy]

Thanks, illl have a hunt around, I see that he has a few books.

 

I will have a play with lighting at the back.

[speakercon]

Check out Thomann, we buy pretty much all our theatre stuff from them.

 

We use nearly all LED pars with just a few source 4 profiles FOH for white, which makes cabling much easier as you just need hard power & DMX to each LX bar.

[Andrew_C]

Thomann are OK. If you know what you need. Cheap, sure... But if you need guidance, go to someone local.

[howartp]

One thing I would advise is to keep clear of blue LED light if you are needing to record or photograph performances.

 

We have recently had a lot of issues with purple/blue haze on pupils when video has been taken. After a lot of research it turns out that this is related to the frequency of the blue LED light - we have had to remove blue from any LED light set up now if we are required to send a video to the examiner. We have reverted back to traditional lights.

 

Thanks

Cool - that helps tremendously with our panto which is running this week.

 

Got a number of new LEDs over the last couple of years to upgrade our aging rig, but the video clarity has gone downhill at the same time.

 

Will check this out tonight.

 

Peter

[ItsOggy]

Ive spoken to a few people that recommend the Source 4 Profiles with HFL lamps and recommend staying clear from LED profiles.

 

I'm going to hire a pair of each for a week and see what they look like in comparison, it's rehersals till just before Easter so plenty of opportunity to try them out!