[news] Yahoo - Schools are using monitoring software.

[rad]

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/many-schools-using-computer-software-000404178.html

[Garacesh]

This just in: Schools try to abide by legislation to protect young persons. Also, water is wet. The sky is wet. Everything is wet. British Winter.

[unixman_again]

"they use so-called classroom management software packages" - we also use so-called office suite packages, so-called web browsing software, so-called management information systems, etc, etc

[fiza]

Should schools be telling students/parents what software is being used to monitor activity? Our AUP clearly states that all activity can and will be monitored but we dont mention which software we use.

Only 149 out of 1000 schools said they had an AUP? I find that hard to believe.

[pcstru]

This just in: Schools try to abide by legislation to protect young persons. Also, water is wet. The sky is wet. Everything is wet. British Winter.

Did you know that for the fire brigade water isn't actually wet enough. They add wetting agents to make even British water wetter.

[pcstru]

On a serious note :

Out of these 1,000 schools, 149 – around one in six – provided acceptable use policies, and of these, 26 gave information about the type of software and how it was used. A total of 123 did not give any further details beyond stating that students may be monitored when using computers.

 

Which perhaps suggest we are not getting the surrounding policy and procedure correct. We are meeting our obligations in some ways (monitoring) we are not meeting them in others (transparency, openness and appropriate controls).

[Oaktech]

Ah, 'big brother watch', an organisation devoted to the pursuit of spectacularly missing the point.

[X-13]

Should schools be telling students/parents what software is being used to monitor activity?

 

Personally, I'd say no.

 

I'm pretty sure if you said, for example, "we use impero to monitor activity" there'd be a surge of "how to bypass impero" searches both on and off site.

[DJ-1701]

Ah, 'big brother watch', an organisation devoted to the pursuit of spectacularly missing the point.

 

I guess that answers the question, who watches the watchers? Are they suggesting we just let kids have the ability to do whatever they want on PCs and the Internet? If not... what is their solution? Employ some staff to look over their shoulders?

[Garacesh]

Should schools be telling students/parents what software is being used to monitor activity?

Definitely not. Sure, it's not too trivial to find out, but there is no need for us to state which software is in use. We don't announce which software handles our CCTV footage, nor do we provide information on our internet filtering, we just have it in our policy that CCTV is in operation, as is a web filter. The software name isn't important, it's what it does and how it's documented that's important

 

Our AUP clearly states that all activity can and will be monitored but we dont mention which software we use.

Only 149 out of 1000 schools said they had an AUP? I find that hard to believe.

At such a low turnout, I suspect the FOI request didn't actually ask for the AUP.

[RichCowell]

This is quite a well timed discussion for me... as we're hosting a couple of online safety evenings for governors and parents this week and next week... I'll be at both, though just for support and questions rather than delivering content (thankfully!)

 

What would you say if asked directly by a parent which software we use to monitor? Would you just refuse to answer, or say it's confidential etc.?

[sted]

Definitely not. Sure, it's not too trivial to find out, but there is no need for us to state which software is in use. We don't announce which software handles our CCTV footage, nor do we provide information on our internet filtering, we just have it in our policy that CCTV is in operation, as is a web filter. The software name isn't important, it's what it does and how it's documented that's important

 

 

At such a low turnout, I suspect the FOI request didn't actually ask for the AUP.

or asked for it in such a convoluted way people diddnt read it as intended

[pcstru]

What would you say if asked directly by a parent which software we use to monitor? Would you just refuse to answer, or say it's confidential etc.?

Why wouldn't you tell them? There is no security through obscurity and the law requires us to be open and transparent when it comes to monitoring; we have to tell people we are doing it and how we are doing it (who can monitor whom under what circumstances and what oversight is there).

[LeMarchand]

Only 149 out of 1000 schools said they had an AUP? I find that hard to believe.

 

Maybe they mean a monitoring AUP? e.g. "We will only monitor if there is a suspicion that little Johnny..."

[RichCowell]

Why wouldn't you tell them? There is no security through obscurity and the law requires us to be open and transparent when it comes to monitoring; we have to tell people we are doing it and how we are doing it (who can monitor whom under what circumstances and what oversight is there).

 

I would have done - just wondering after the comments about not telling parents due to the increased risk of students looking for ways to bypass it... I'm confident enough in the software and setup generally in school for it not to be much of a risk... I was just curious what others would say if they didn't want to specify which...

[localzuk]

Why wouldn't you tell them? There is no security through obscurity and the law requires us to be open and transparent when it comes to monitoring; we have to tell people we are doing it and how we are doing it (who can monitor whom under what circumstances and what oversight is there).

There's no advantage to telling them the name of the software either. We don't tell people who makes our locks on our doors either.

[pcstru]

There's no advantage to telling them the name of the software either. We don't tell people who makes our locks on our doors either.

The advantage is that you are being open and transparent about monitoring. If they are parents, I think they have a reasonable right to know. That might also serve us better when they discover that we do not have in place suitable policy and procedure to control monitoring. Or perhaps we are the only school that does not - but I somehow doubt that.

[Garacesh]

There's no advantage to telling them the name of the software either. We don't tell people who makes our locks on our doors either.

 

The advantage is that you are being open and transparent about monitoring. If they are parents, I think they have a reasonable right to know. That might also serve us better when they discover that we do not have in place suitable policy and procedure to control monitoring. Or perhaps we are the only school that does not - but I somehow doubt that.

 

Personally, if a parent asked me, I'd say "Yes, our IT suites use classroom management software that allows the teacher to lock the computers, view their screens and restrict web access."

Not because I actively don't want to tell them we use NetSupport, but simply because it doesn't actually make a difference. If the parent responded with "Oh, OK. Which software is it?" I'd tell them.

 

If a potential employer asks you "Do you have a car?" You reply "Yes.", not "Yeah, I have a 2007 Honda Accord with...", it's unnecessary detail not pertinent to the actual question.

[RichCowell]

Personally, if a parent asked me, I'd say "Yes, our IT suites use classroom management software that allows the teacher to lock the computers, view their screens and restrict web access."

Not because I actively don't want to tell them we use NetSupport, but simply because it doesn't actually make a difference. If the parent responded with "Oh, OK. Which software is it?" I'd tell them.

 

If a potential employer asks you "Do you have a car?" You reply "Yes.", not "Yeah, I have a 2007 Honda Accord with...", it's unnecessary detail not pertinent to the actual question.

 

I'd handle it in exactly the same way, I think giving anything other than straight answers is more likely to make you look shifty...

[localzuk]

The advantage is that you are being open and transparent about monitoring. If they are parents, I think they have a reasonable right to know. That might also serve us better when they discover that we do not have in place suitable policy and procedure to control monitoring. Or perhaps we are the only school that does not - but I somehow doubt that.

Saying what and how we monitor is not the same as saying what we use to monitor. I just can't see an advantage in saying the name of the software. I can see the advantage in not saying it though.

[pcstru]

Personally, if a parent asked me, I'd say "Yes, our IT suites use classroom management software that allows the teacher to lock the computers, view their screens and restrict web access."

Not because I actively don't want to tell them we use NetSupport, but simply because it doesn't actually make a difference. If the parent responded with "Oh, OK. Which software is it?" I'd tell them.

Right. So you would tell them. No need to keep it secret.

 

I'd think our students could spot we use Impero fairly easily. I don't rely for security on students not searching for exploits. I rely on the product being secure no matter who tries to hack it.

 

If a potential employer asks you "Do you have a car?" You reply "Yes.", not "Yeah, I have a 2007 Honda Accord with...", it's unnecessary detail not pertinent to the actual question.

The question was should schools be telling parents what they use. The answer should be simply yes. It is software used to impose monitoring on their children. They a) have every right to know and b) could obtain the information via FOI. I can't see what could be gained by not considering the actual product that is used, essentially public information. I appreciate you don't want to swamp people, with information the have not requested, but that is surely not the issue that was in question.

Edited November 8, 2016 by pcstru

[pcstru]

Saying what and how we monitor is not the same as saying what we use to monitor. I just can't see an advantage in saying the name of the software.

The advantage for the parent is to know you are using a recognised product supplied by a reputable company.

 

I can see the advantage in not saying it though.

Which is?

[Garacesh]

Right. So you would tell them. No need to keep it secret.

 

I'd think our students could spot we use Impero fairly easily.

I wouldn't be keeping it a secret, but I don't see a need to openly advertise it either. There's a distinct difference between 'omitting unimportant information' and 'actively trying to censor information'.

Our kids can spot that we use NetSupport easily, mostly because they hear teachers referring to it by name. It's not like we try and hide it. It's just not important to mention it because that's what we use and that's that.

 

Should schools be telling parents that classroom management software is in use? Yes. Should schools be telling parents the capabilities of the classroom management software? Yes. Should schools be telling parents what flavour of classroom management software we use? Well, not no, but not no is not intrinsically yes.

Edited November 8, 2016 by Garacesh

[elsiegee40]

Isn't this 'old' news? I'm sure this monitoring scaremongering has surfaced before

[pcstru]

Should schools be telling parent what flavour of classroom management software we use? Well, not no, but not no is not intrinsically yes.

It is a pretty simple question : do we tell if asked. Your answer seems to be the same as mine, yes we do.